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This debate is asinine.
Fuck it, let's just abolish competitive sport until people can calm the fuck down about their stupid games. Maybe we could make the world better in general if we funnel some of that sporting money into something that isn't totally pointless.
lol you point out that the amount of money put into sports could be used for other things. You suggest making the world better as a possible use case.
There’s nothing incorrect about any of this yet people got angry with you. It’s weird.
For some reason it's a really contentious topic.
I support trans rights. I also acknowledge that this specific issue materially affects almost no one, and yet it's one of the flashpoints of some of the most rabid transphobia. And I also acknowledge that given the current regressive laws that are taking effect, it would be infinitely more constructive to focus on... I don't know, access to healthcare or anti-bullying policy.
Basically no one gets to be a professional athlete. Leagues have not grown in proportion to the population, and even before that, the dream of being a professional athlete was very unrealistic. Professional sports are inherently classist in that you must have consistent access to equipment, facilities, and a bonkers amount of time to devote to a (for almost everyone who tries) fruitless pursuit.
Nothing is better because of professional sport and basically no one gets to do it anyways. It seems like a deliberately divisive issue that is basically meaningless.
On the other hand, this specific reaction seems maybe like people are mad that college is stupidly unaffordable and athletics are a way to access college. Seems like post secondary education reform might be the better solution but wtf do I know.
On this subject I've had mix feelings.
I get their point and I do not see this as a fair thing. Now that more people are coming out or transitioning should they try to make a different league or something?
Correct me, but we are yet to see a trans person winning anything or achieve a significant record anywhere. IIRC hormones do a big effect on anything but bones frame. And we are still talking potentional damage for M2F transitioners only, not F2M athletes or NB athletes.
Honestly, I think the whole perception of international competitive gendered sports like Olympics shall die. Sportsmanship on that level is toxic, many use drugs, costumes and hacks to somehow gain the edge. I see sports as a motivation for regular people to think of their health, not a gambling platform or a thing to boost national pride by injecting 'winning horses' with steroids, inhalers, whiskey.
Trans problem in sports is not a problem of trans people who do sports but another reason to redo sports and our perception of them.
Correct me, but we are yet to see a trans person winning anything or achieve a significant record anywhere.
The article itself has this to say:
"Thomas was the first openly transgender athlete to win a Division I title in any sport, finishing in front of three Olympic medalists for the championship."
I'd say that winning a Div1 title ahead of three Olympic Medalist is somewhat significant.
Gendered sports dying means sports for biological women dying and sports for biological men being basically unaffected.
Something tells me competitive sports aren’t just going to die out because some of us struggle to accept testosterone is a steroid and gives an unfair advantage versus women.
Seeing sports as a casual way to get exercise is fine on a personal level if you aren't an elite athlete, but you can't force that perspective on millions of people who enjoy competing or watching elite athletes compete. It's a weird take to want to rewire sports to accommodate a very small minority of people, most of whom wouldn't even agree with that perspective.
Trans athletes have definitely won some competitions. The news were sometimes difficult to miss.
But that's really the thing. Sometimes it feels like there's no problem before a trans athlete wins. Like how many competitions have transgender athletes taken part in throughout modern history? Thousands? And how many have they won? A handful?
I mean, almost nobody talked about this before the inevitable happened: A trans person happened to win a competition and it gained media attention. And when we consider that the Olympics has allowed transgender athletes to compete within their gender since 2003...
Many sports throughout history were only segregated by gender once and because a woman fought to participate and beat the men.
This is all about the bruised egos of bigots. If they'd come 5th against a cis woman they'd be annoyed at themselves and try to do better next time, but coming 5th against a trans woman hurts because they see trans people as inferior (yet also superior, sound familiar? that's because it's one of the points from the fascism checklist), so them coming 5th is clearly her fault, and she must be persecuted to give her, and other trans people, the message that they aren't welcome.
Yeah this one is a mixed bag. Biological males can absolutely have an advantage in certain things. Simple as that. I mean look what happened with the Williams sisters.
This one is an absolute mess of a thing to have to figure out and, at the end of the day, I'm glad I'm some dude on the sidelines and not having to make the call on this one lol.
I feel the same way. I strongly support one side of this story, but the other side also has a valid point. So even when things turn out how I think it should be, it still has a nasty after taste.
I think we should preemptively start a Go Fund Me for the poor guy who has to make the choice.
This will ENSURE that next time Riley Gaines will get First instead of Fifth! The ONLY thing holding her back was Lia Thomas being TRANS!
Testosterone is one hell of a drug: "After 24 months of testosterone suppression, bone mass is generally preserved. The review states that no study has reported muscle loss greater than 12% with testosterone suppression even after three years of hormone therapy.[75] It found that trans women are in the top 10% of females regarding lean body mass and possess a grip 25% stronger than most females.[75]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_people_in_sports
The physical differences because of testosterone are why we have separate competitions for men and women. Imo it's not very fair to lifelong women, to let new women compete against them, if those new women have significant physical advantages because of higher testosterone levels in their past. If the differences had been negated over time by hormone therapy, then I'd consider it fair, but the advantages are clearly not negated and they are quite significant.
Given that there will be more people like Lia Thomas who want to compete at the highest levels in sports and that people who were born male can have natural advantages at sports, doesn't this mean that over time people who are born male will displace all people who were born female in sports, leaving no biological women in the top slots? If this trend continues, I don't see why this wouldn't happen over years and years. No matter how one feels about this issue this would feel like a profoundly unfair outcome.