this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2024

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Linux Mobile Distro postmarketOS Adopts systemd to Better Support GNOME, KDE Plasma (9to5linux.com)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] zolax 55 points 8 months ago (1 children)

to clarify:

The developers of the Alpine Linux-based postmarketOS mobile distribution today that they’re now supporting the systemd init system alongside OpenRC and other alternative init systems.

and:

postmarketOS currently supports the Sxmo, Phosh, GNOME Shell on Mobile, and KDE Plasma Mobile UIs. While the Sxmo images will stay with OpenRC, the GNOME and KDE Plasma Mobile images will be built on top of systemd

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Does that mean those images are not built on Alpine Linux, or did they somehow kludge glibc into it just to build systemd?

[–] zolax 1 points 8 months ago

GNOME and KDE images will be built with systemd by default. while using systemd will be optional, polyfills - a somewhat messy way of providing systemd features with other init systems - are the only way to support GNOME and KDE and will eventually become unmaintained by PostmarketOS.

not too sure how systemd was implemented, but it looks like systemd is just built with musl libc as systemd is mostly compatible with it.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 8 months ago

thank christ, it sucks to see projects let perfection be the enemy of good.

a project can be as ideologically pure as it wants, but it's not gonna accomplish much if that handicaps it out of anyone seriously using it.

[–] onlinepersona 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Plasma mobile looks way better than phosh IMO. Glad that the mobile environment will resemble the desktop environment. Makes it easier to do cross-platform stuff.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Phosh kinda sucks, idk how it is on Librem devices, but on PmOS it's super clunky.

[–] onlinepersona -2 points 8 months ago

Dunno what it looks like now, but back then it sucked on Librem too. I can understand trying to do different stuff, but they made the experience worse and I haven't looked back from KDE mobile.

CC BY-NC-SA 4.0

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Great, this should help attract the mainstream linux user more

[+] [email protected] -44 points 8 months ago (3 children)

PostmarketOS has had really strange priorities lately. I'm not a fan of the whole ethos of Ubuntu mobile (including their use of SystemD) but at least they have stuck to actually getting every feature working on some devices with reasonable specs. My computer uses KDE and OpenRC and has far fewer issues than it did on SystemD. This feels like a waste of resources to reinvent the wheel.

[–] [email protected] 82 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Reinventing the wheel is what they were doing without Systemd.
On their announcement they cite various instances of having to write polyfills and ending up with basically 'Systemd at home' but buggier.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 8 months ago (2 children)

The project is in an too early phase to debate over SystemD. Can you guys please hold back with these arguments until pmOS reaches at least 4% market share.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

There is no minimum market share threshold to discuss the way the software you use is being developed and PostmarketOS will not reach 4% in the foreseeable future (and it probably never will). Desktop Linux only just reached that threshold after decades of work and systemd arguments have been happening for years regardless. The conditions for mobile Linux are considerably less favorable. If we can't discuss systemd until 4% is reached, we can't discuss systemd ever. Which is fair, because the systemd horse has already been beaten to death at this point. But not because it hasn't reached some arbitrary 4% threshold. That makes no sense.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago

If we can't discuss systemd until 4% is reached, we can't discuss systemd ever. Which is fair, because the systemd horse has already been beaten to death at this point.

Exactly :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Well you're right but the more postmarketOS grows, the harder it is to switch to another init system

[–] [email protected] 19 points 8 months ago

They are giving options, no one is forced anything. People should complain upstream at init systems and ~~desktop~~mobile environments.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Why would you want to. Systemd is the standard for a reason.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It does have disadvantages. The only real advantage of it is the completeness of system administration tools. Since they aren't that much needed on a phone and the performance of that class of devices is not groundbreaking, using another init system is a good idea. Though it depends on what the specific user wants of course. As long as there is a way to change the init system, it shouldn't be a problem

[–] [email protected] 8 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Another init will be slower and will require much more time and resources though.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Don't believe. Do you have any proof of that?

[–] xcjs 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Systemd was created to allow parallel initialization, which other init systems lacked. If you want proof that one processor core is slower than one + n, you don't need to compare init systems to do that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I've never heard of that. I only heard that other init systems usually have better performance. And well even if it's not the case, security is another massive concern

[–] xcjs 4 points 8 months ago

I mean, sysvinit was just a bunch of root-executed bash scripts. I'm not sure if systemd is really much worse.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

And? :)

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

ive been working on migrating away from systemd myself, so much headaches. I like the services setup, but man the issues can sometimes be baffling

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Isn't Linux without systemd just a hobbyists niche exercise in masturbation though, let's be real.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I mean, I don't really care what it is so long as it works fine.