this post was submitted on 20 Mar 2024
1106 points (98.0% liked)
RPGMemes
10324 readers
343 users here now
Humor, jokes, memes about TTRPGs
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That site is so weird. And whoever wrote that article is also mathematically illiterate. Not to mention they didn't link to any sources. So here is one they claim to have used:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Foreign_language_skills_statistics#Level_of_command_of_best_known_foreign_language
This source says that 65% of 25-64 year old spoke at least a second language in 2016. The much lower number of 24% is when asked about proficiency, which can't be compared with the US given Americans' notorious overestimation of their own qualifications.
Most of the 25% of Americans (I couldn't find a source for this) claiming to speak a second language is immigrants. I guess it needs to be said, but when people comment on the monolongualism of Americans, it's about those who are not immigrants or first generation born in the US.
In my experience, most non Hispanics claiming to speak Spanish in the US struggle to hold even a basic conversation. And I have been to 35+ states, including door to door canvassing, etc.
It’s worth noting that the lack of second language proficiency isn’t a result of laziness or ignorance
In Europe, most people are a short train ride from another country. There is also a lot of cultural exchange between countries within Europe.
Most Americans are multiple days of driving from the nearest non English speaking country, and that’s just to arrive in an area of Mexico where the people they will interact with overwhelmingly speak English.
In that context, there is little utility for most people in learning a second language. It’s also very difficult to achieve true proficiency when you are so rarely exposed to native speakers of a language.
You're forgetting that English is not the native language in most European countries. That means you most likely need to be at least bilingual to make a decent living.
Also it dosent help that english is the new lingua franca. Those 60% europans usualy speak their own native language and english, sometimes also a second europan language ( In poland for example we learn english and than depending on the school usualy either german or french )
I know this is anecdotal. As an American, when I mention knowing a second language, I will occasionally get "oh, I know that language too!" from someone. And... They don't. They know a couple phrases at best.
"Well, I speak the most Italian, so I'll be your escort. Donowitz speaks the second most, so he'll be your Italian cameraman. Omar speaks third most, so he'll be Donny's assistant."
"I don't speak Italian."
"Like I said, third best."
Bon jor no.
Prime example: according to numerous surveys more Dutch people speak French well than Belgians.
Belgian is half French speaking, French is taught in Flemish schools from an early age, and many Dutch/Flemish speakers work in predominantly French speaking Brussels, and/or have French speaking friends/relatives.
But it's understandable: a Dutch person thinks their French is great if they manage to order something in a French restaurant while on holiday and have the waiter understand them. That's more than enough for their purposes. A Flemish Belgian thinks their French is bad, if they're unable to write a letter in French which respects rules like those about accord COD/COI (Elle a pris des photos. Les photos qu'elle a prises. Elle est allée prendre des photos. - Hope that's correct)
That and Dunning Kruger. If you have little competence in foreign languages, you don't know enough to know that you don't know enough.
Exactly! They think they know German because of a few phrases. Meanwhile, I think my German is bad because I watched the TV show "Real Humans" (Echte Menschen) in German with German subtitles and got lost anytime they were talking about legal matters in the lawyer's office!
This is broadly true with white Americans that their immigrant background is there already for generations... but a huge part of america does not even speak English at home. America is a melting pot of people from everywhere in the world.
Oh thank the gods, I was worried we might have lost our #1 spot in monolingualism.
It is easy to find many other sources with the same statistics. These as I understand them are people who speak 2 languages and not people who have simply learned some of a second language. There are a lot of American people speaking Spanish in the US, of course there are also for example, 1.5 million who speak vietnamese.
This is broadly true with white Americans when their immigrant background is there already for generations... but a huge part of america does not even speak English at home. America is a melting pot of people from everywhere in the world and they naturally bring their languages, food, and culture with them. It is easy to forget, especially when only looking at specific demographics of a diverse country.
Dear americans,
having a great great grandmother who lived in sicily doesn't make you Italian.
With contempt,
The World
Dear Germans, When someone had a grandfather who was Turkish that doesn't make their german born descendants Turkish... They are german.
Dear brits, The Indian guy who's grand parents were born in Britain... he's not "the Indian guy", he's brittish.
Dear French, French is not a skin color. It's a nationality. A black guy can be French too.
With contempt
Immigrant descendents in Europe.
The thing about people's roots is it's complicated, messy, and not only an American problem. More compassion and understanding goes a long ways.