this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2024
376 points (80.4% liked)

Ask Lemmy

27006 readers
1089 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions

Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected]


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Im not religious, not in the sense that i follow any particular religion.

But it seems to me, analyzing the history of humanity across multiple cultures, that we humans have fundamentally a "spiritual need", a need to believe into something that is bigger than us, that lies on a superior level of existence.

Call it buddhism, christianity or whatever, but it seems like we need to believe in something like that.

To an extent, i believe it has to do with us being moral animals and having a natural need for justice. We want to believe that justice exists in this world and a religion and its rules is a way to a just world. Because bad people go to hell, or are victims of karma.

So to answer your question. I think we want the world to be fair, because we are moral animals. And believing in religion is a way to believe in a fair world.

The problem with religions is twofold.

One, that across human history the above core element of all religions has been conflated with other foreign elements that have nothing to do with it, like descriptions about the origin of the universe and humans (which is a question of science, not of religion) and rules about how to live your life which have nothing moral about them (and are probably the temporary result of the existing culture within a society). Like forbidding homosexuality, or the idea that women serve a very limited function in society which is limited to taking care of the home and the children.

Usually people have come to accept this because religion is sold as a "complete package" (particularly enforced with rules that you make a bad religious person if you don't accept it all and with the people close being incentivized to look down on you for not strictly adhering to the religious teachings). That is also why people believe in religion in general (and not just in its moral teachings which actually make sense) in 2024.

The second problem with religion (and here i'm going on a tangent that doesn't have much to do with the question at hand) is that it usually makes a validity claim for eternity, i.e. religion asserts that its rules and knowledge are valid forever (literally set in stone). This has done more harm than good to our improving of our set of guiding moral principles.

Sorry if this comment is a bit of a mess.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I heard somewhere that spirituality is the easing of suffering. Maybe that was from Mark Manson (Subtle Art, YT channel, etc.).

Something in that statement works for me. I'm not superstitious nor do I hold beliefs in the supernatural. But I do undertake efforts to ease suffering - whether that's meditation, readings, or reflection.

I think many have a spiritual need. Anxiety, depression, grief, changing moods, and more reveal that need. There's an emotional ("spiritual") suffering that we hope or need to salve.

Then I think we overshoot the mark.

It's easy to want concrete perspectives when the world is dark, unjust, or foreboding. Attempting to meet those need with concrete answers helps feed the rise of religion.

I can't fault the feeling of needing certainty, but I'd hope we can find ways to ease suffering without the use of delusion or lies.

Having said all of the above, I'm an Atheist. I think in rejecting religion, we have, also, overshot the mark.

People need each other. We need the things and rituals that help us find or move closer to peace. We are emotional, feeling, social animals and we've wrapped ourselves in new certainties and - sometimes - self-righteousness.

We need people. We need respect. We need love. We deserve human rights. We, also, need to learn how to transcend some of our injuries so we can navigate more effectively. That can be family, community, or national politics.

I'm not talking about losing boundaries. I'm talking about using them differently. Yesterday was MLK Jr day. He set boundaries, but he didn't do it in hate or overt shame and anger.

He just did the work that needed to be done with the clearest eyes he could. I hope we, the materialists, can find a realistic perspective that doesn't over-celebrate reason, and forgets the rest of our experience.

Reason tells us we feel. We hurt. We hurt others. We need something (reality-based) that reminds us to tend to ourselves and our communities.

We need balance.

I've wandered some in my response. It helped me to type, maybe it helps someone else, too. Either way, I liked your comment and it spurred thought.

Thank you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Blind faith is just a socially acceptable mental illness.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I think that there is a place in the human brain that is responsible for 'spirituality'. Attempts at stimulating it can produce deep religious thoughts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet

Maybe it evolved as a buffer to store random ideas we couldn't comprehend. Maybe as a social creator we need a section of our brain to produce spiritual ideas, to help with social cohesion?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

IMHO, an easier explanation is that complexity, chaos and the unknown are scary, very very scary.

Things are a lot less scary and a lot more simple if all complexity is explained away by Deity, nothing important is random but rather controlled by said Deity and the unknown is replaced by some fable around Deity.

A mother losing her child in an Earthquake is easier to handle at an emotional level if "It was the will of God and that child went to Heaven" (which is pretty much what the typical Catholic Priest will say) than having to face it being merelly random bad luck and that young person she loved so much being gone forever. (It's not by chance that for example Mormons during the period when they're supposed to go out and preach their religion around the World will look at obituaries to find people to try to convert).