this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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If you aren't anti-oppression or anti-apartheid you aren't progressive
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
The israeli Government is not the only one with blood on their hands and while nothing can excuse what the IDF is doing, nothing can excuse what HAMAS is doing too.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is also bad for Israelis.
You literally listed off everything Israel is doing. Good job.
Israel's killed over 11k civilians since Oct 7th.
Israel's bombed over 20 hospitals.
Israel refused to take their hostages back even when Hamas offered them in exchange for the Palestinians hostages Israel has. Then bombed the locations they know hostages were at.
Hamas is using hospitals as staging grounds to fire rockets at Israel, over 9,500 rockets so far since Oct 7th.
The hostage exchange was for a ceasefire that Hamas wanted so they could regroup and start attacking Israel from stronger positions. And they only offered 15 of the 200+ hostages. It was fucking bullshit, and Israel was right to reject it.
nothing really found in the hospitals yet - https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-16-2023-6c7daa3b8c3a6b8dddf186ce631dfaad
That's the only difference you see? Not the extreme disproportionality of the bloodshed? Not the comparisons between civilian casualties on each side?
Hamas is like the cave-dwelling dwarf people that America made up for the middle-east to justify killing over a hundred-thousand civilians. Seriously, are we to believe that Gaza has a bunch of Gringotts vaults underneath it?
Seriously, it is clear that the bombing is not about saving hostages nor destroying Hamas. Would it surprise anyone if they found out that Israel's far-right government is like the ex that attacks you and then punches themselves and screams like a Karen that you attacked them first.. and then when asked for evidence because their wounds look self-induced, they yell... you don't believe me you antisemitic Nazi!?!
If you aren't anti-religious-fascism you aren't a civilized person. But it seems that more and more "progressives" are falling in that category.
Sure, but who is the "oppressor" and who is the "oppressed" can flip on a dime based on context.
A lot of oppressed people eventually find themselves to be the oppressor.
If you take a hard stance joining any side, you are at some point siding with an oppressor.
I don't need to describe how horrific and oppressive Nazi Germany and the Holocaust was. But you take a hard stance siding with the Jewish people, you are siding with the oppressor in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I don't need to describe how horrific the situation in Gaza is, but if you take a hard stance siding with Palestine and Hamas executes a bunch of festival goers, you're siding with the oppressor.
The only way to be anti-opression (and according to you, a real progressive), is to not take sides but take every situation as it is and support the best possible outcome for everyone.
Israel doesn't represent every Jew that ever lived around the world.
Yes I support the Warsaw uprising.
Yes I support the dismantlement of apartheid states.
These are not conflicting stances.
If the oppressed become an oppressor my stance can change on them. Not taking the side of the oppressed while they are being oppressed is cowardly and indirectly supports the status quo/the oppressor.
I must have missed history class where the Warsaw Uprising attacked a peace festival.
Being oppressed is not a license to become a monster yourself. I refuse to condone cold blooded revenge (both Hamas and IDF).
That the festival was for peace in Gaza is an onboarding lie spread by the IDF. The festival was simply in celebration of the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. The motto was "friends, love and infinite freedom", so just about a regular rave.
Sadly mandatory: This doesn't make it okay to slaughter and abduct the attendees.
Whatever Palestine does to free themselves from oppression is justified. Israel has never been oppressed by Palestine.
You'd think the fact Biden is significantly trailing in most swing states would be a sign for Democrats to wake up and offer something better. Or you know, not support the ethnic state doing a genocide. As this comment shows, instead of blaming the party, it's the voters who have the right point of view who are shamed for not bringing themselves to support the party. They're shamed for being on a high horse instead of compromising on their values and supporting a system that causes genocides. Sometimes the Democrats convince leftists but after enough time something like this happens, then they're cast as the enemies causing the other party to win.
You can't win as a leftist in this situation, "oh you don't want to support the party enabling a fascist ethnic genocide? Well it's your fault the fascist will win then!" Eventually it's just like fuck off. The Democrats made it clear they don't want a candidate with an almost certain chance of beating Trump, I mean they helped him get the nomination in the first place. If Trump wins again it's because the Democrats didn't do the bare minimum to select a candidate who actually connects with the voters they need. Blaming the people who are actually on the right side of every issue for their failure is more of a confession.
The only person who agrees with you on every subject is: you. This is why you vote for the least worst candidate. I'm Australian though. We have our own problems but I'm trying. Is that what progressive means?