this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
The new place for c/[email protected]
This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Subscribers: 2.1k
Date Created: June 21, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library π
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
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Skilled labor is something that you need outside training in order to do.
When someone is an 'unskilled worker,' it means they're only eligible for positions that train them.
Nevertheless, a worker who has been trained is a worker who has become skilled.
A worker who has been trained on a job site is worker who has become skilled in work at the job site.
When one has spent half a day learning to pack boxes, then a week learning to do it quick enough, I'll grant they have acquired a skill. Probably not a transferable skill, but definitely a skill
It's still unskilled work
Name one thing that doesn't require outside skill. Literally nothing you know in your life you learned on your own.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just what people intend to mean when they say unskilled labor.
The "people" who intend to mean that I shouldn't even be paid aren't people.
It is not about compensation. If the work is unskilled it is unskilled. How much it should be paid is a different discussion.
The people who invented the term invented it to justify low or no pay
Citation needed. Please tell me the name of the people, the date they invented the term, the justification they offered for the term, and private letters that indicate this conspiracy.
Take as much time as you need to provide these four pieces of data that would back up your claim.
This is not a genuine ask. You just don't want to acknowledge propaganda.
No work is deserving of such scorn and disrespect. All work requires effort and should be recognised as such.
Don't tell me what my intentions are you are not a mind reader. And don't imply something I didn't say.
Now how are citations going?
Do you really think all work doesn't require skill? That there are jobs out there that are truly mindless?
Tell me you have never been with a rollform operation without telling me.
You're buying into a way of thinking that only serves to demonise the "lowest" of the working class.
How is that citation going?
I can't fathom cognitive dissonance of being able to say unskilled and implying it isn't equivalent to $0
Well, theory of mind is a skill.
Fine. Maybe an analogy will help. If you say X = 2 and I say that it does not, does that mean I am saying it is equal to 3? You made an assertion, I reject your assertion, that doesn't mean anything else. A does not imply B in this case.
Unskilled labor does not mean it should be done for free. No one is saying that, except you. Because that strawman is able to defeat.
Work is activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result. Something unskilled isn't work. Not sure what's so hard to understand.
My dude, are you seriously in here arguing that unskilled labor doesn't deserve pay? Wow, how vile. Good troll.
They actually have something of a point here. They're essentially arguing unskilled work doesn't exist. They're saying all work is skilled work. They're saying the very notion of unskilled is a fantasy used to excuse not paying for certain work. They even implied the opposite of what you claimed, by insulting people who use the term unskilled to justify unpaid work...
And before you say it, I'm also aware that the point is going to fly over his head. I just enjoy messing with trolls.
I also generally agree with this treatment of trolls.But I also think defending workers from insult is important.
I'm going to be honest with you, I really don't have a stake in this argument. The only reason I'm following him around and antagonizing him is to show him how ridiculous it is to assert that the social contract we all share isn't necessary.
He made it a point to declare his right to be an asshole and also explained that his purpose of existence is soley to be intolerant towards tolerant people, in the name of cynically proving that any person who claims to be tolerant actually isn't. All this on a post ironically about the paradox of tolerance. And that's when I looked at his profile and noticed he's just kind of an asshole to everyone.
So I'm agitating him to demonstrate that you can't just skirt the conversational norms we all abide by and troll in the name of your right to be an asshole.
It's kind of petty, I know. But I'm not really concerned with representing his argument honestly, since intellectual honesty is something he doesn't abide by either by his own declaration.
I don't really care what this guy did in a different thread. In this thread, they're making a good point.
Yes I just wrote this, everything that gets pay today is in fact more than unskilled. Go fuck yourself you retarded clown, you literally entertain me for free and don't even see the irony in it.
Ooo look, a more pointed insult.
You know, the fool is the one who responds to the clown, not the clown.
Yeah I know, keep responding.
So which are you? The clown or the fool?
What did he mean by this...
Not keeping up with a sime question over like 3 comments? Come on, you're better than that troll. Say something clever!
Please remain civil.
Thanks.
Oh not going to defend your old argument anymore? This is the skill of deflection.
This guy's account is 8 hours old with 100+ comments, and every single one that's addressing a reply to something he said is a deflection.
He's a troll teaching a masterclass on deflection.
I don't need to defend anything.
Of course you don't. Who actually follows the rules of discourse anyway? Don't like that you can't defend your point adequately? Just quit!
Bravo my friend.
Did I also forget to sign some terms of service before replying to you?
No, you made it very clear earlier that you don't do social contracts. I'm just making sure other people know that too.
Like, "Hey, this guy's not gonna argue with you in good faith. He literally said that he doesn't have to defend points he makes"
Why should people waste their time on you? It's only fair to warn them, you know
Please tell me what else I don't do.
Not my job. You're doing a great job demonstrating for me though. I'm just along for the ride
So true
π This is what he says when he's out of insults. Love this guy
Yeah you don't. Deflecting, strawmanning, goal post moving, +100 on an account created 8 hours ago. Don't defend any of it. I changed my mind. I want you to leave this turd on the ground where everyone can see it and see who left it there.
My original point stands, don't forget moving it anywhere. Just because you're mindbroken by me being able to post more than you can in your day on Antiwork of all places, doesn't mean that it's my problem.
Nice! Break that fool, you're such a dominant troll. You put that turd right on the ground and make him look at it
I have a master's degree, but I can honestly say working at Wendy's took just as much skill as what I do now. "People" who use terms like "unskilled labor" are part of the problem. There's no such thing as "unskilled labor." I'm agreeing with you.
I only have a bachelor's degree and can honestly say that there is no way I can do my job without it.
Packing boxes, unless you mean "outside training" to include walking and talking
It's unskilled in terms that any moderately competent person can do the job and become proficient at it quickly
My skilled job required tertiary education, plus about two years on the job for a person to become good at it