this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2023
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
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- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
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- Better and fewer working hours.
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I hire in technology. I can easily spend weeks filling a position. Candidates lie through their resumes and interviews 20 wasted interviews = 30 hours cultivating those interviews I have about a 26% no show, no response to missed interviews. Posting a job equals literally hundreds of emails, recruiters, off shore companies, and badly done resumes.
Headhunters talk big and deliver bottom barrel candidates, no one likes recruiters, so great candidates hardly use them.
When I use tools like one way interviews so I can screen hundreds of candidates, the feedback is "it's not personal enough", then no show on an appointment THEY MAKE
I'm a small business, my resources for hiring aren't extensive.
Just want to give some flavor to the other side of this.
Ok, but - and please don't think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn't that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don't waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that's not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
I didn't say waste, and my job is managing and engineering. If I were in HR maybe. Even if I were a hiring manager, it's still a lot of time into finding resources, and anyone in that situation gets frustrated.
You mentioned 20 wasted interview, therefore my wording. Admittedly I read over the part that it isn't your only responsibility. I can imagine how frustrating it is! Even if this is all you do all day.
But still, you get paid for this. (I once had a well paid bullshit job and understand how draining it is to focus on ridiculous tasks that seem to go nowhere, you got my full sympathy here.) You go home at 5 pm and your day is done. Your paycheck arrives.
We as candidates don't get paid. We put hours and hours into interviews and applications. It seems in IT it is common to just click on direct apply on linkedin. How I envy this! My husband just clicks on 100 applications and gets like 4-5 invites at least.
I work in the biomedical field/research (in Europe) and let me tell you, no one will even remotely consider me for an interview if I have the audacity to not send an application letter that is specifically tailored to the position. So, for every single job I am applying to I am spending at least two hours (if I am in a run and do a lot of copy pasting, let's be real here, I often needed almost a whole day) to finish up the application alone. If I get an interview I have to take a vacation day to go interview. Maybe have a trial day if it is a lab based job (which of course is not paid). I have to do the reading on the company, what they do etc. I wrote a fucking application letter detailing how I identify with the companies values and how I have experience in this and that technique.
Then I come in and they haven't even read my CV so far. They ask me basically no questions. They tell me info about their company that is on their webpage that I can recite. I ask them some questions. They seem to like me a lot. Then I go home. Then they ghost me. I don't know if it is because I lack a PhD or because I am overqualified because I have an MSc. Or because they see a girl with a wedding ring on her finger in her late 20s and assume I will get pregnant soon. The ones that turn me down at least write a copy pasted email saying they chose another candidate. Vague and no details on what set us apart.
For all of this, for all the typing and reading and travelling and interviewing and trial days I am spending money and time. Time I do not get a salary. Time that is wasted and that I do not get paid for.
It is better in science jobs (there they seem to do very anal reading of everything, which I appreciate and I always get an offer) but corporate businesses are hell.
Do you get the impression that these are real humans lying to try and get the job themselves? Or is it just spam from vendor agencies conjuring hypothetical candidates that they in turn will need to find, taking a cut in the process.
It's really hard to say. Generative AI can pump out unlimited resumes and fake human data to make everything look real. I don't know of a service that screens candidates or vets them to make sure they an actual human. It's kinda tinfoil hat to think hiring agencies are flooding the market with fake, so that people like me will just give up; but.. i mean... maybe?
I dont see how that could work. Spamming with ai generated resumes are easy enough but finding a candidate who would accept their offer to just lie and go through with it serms impossible and never heard of. I dont know how these applying process works exactly so is it possible that the service is automatically applying for people based on their relevance? Just a guess tho.
You had me up until one way interview. I don't respect any hiring manager that cannot face me in an interview. Never do one way interviews because there is no opportunity for the candidate to interview the company.
It's not the only interview. Jeez. It's a tool to screen. There's still interviews.
Look at it from the candidates point of view. You have a set of questions or a task you want us to take the time to complete. We do not have the option to ask you questions and see if it is a good fit. That is one reason why we see it as unfair.
Now I understand that you may have hundreds of applications, 24 hours in a day, and a deadline. I don't have a better solution for you because I've never hired anyone, sorry. I feel for you but many people hate one way interviews.
That's not the experience we give. What you describe sounds bad.
So yeah. Perhaps not optimal, but it helps us hire more effectively, and we can process twice {roughly} as many candidates
I was a software developer and I often interviewed prospective candidates by phone. It was hilarious how often I heard keyboard tapping in the background after asking a question, and sometimes I could hear other people whispering. I was like c'mon - I'm only phone interviewing to see if it's worth our time to bring you in for an in-person interview. You're not going to be able to Google shit (or have your friends do it) when you're here, so this tactic is not going to land you a job.
Yeah whenever I go for an interview for a public position, I try to be mindful that the person or people I'm speaking to are probably exhausted. But unless you've got a reference to a private posting directly through a back channel, then I don't think there's any way around it - hiring for a role is hard. But ideally, you'll have the person for years if you can retain them, so doing it right is worthwhile.
I scare myself that I will miss recruiter appointments, I know that I would make a terrable canadate when I was (and still kinda am) going through mential issues.
Thank you, thats good to know. Even worse are the orgs that "job hunt for the 3 legged deer of our society" . The corrupt ones will make you feel crippled. ironically, hurting your mential health, making you an unfit canadate and exasurbating the problem.
Ok, but - and please don't think I mean this in an offensive way, I am asking this in the most naive way - isn't that your whole job? I get that it is annoying, but you don't waste 30 hours, you just work 30 hours. Hours that you get paid for and hours that you would use to do the same job/try to hire for another position otherwise. Of course you could get more done (i.e. more people hired) in a unit of time, but at the end of the day that's not your problem really, is it? You did everything correctly. You still get your hours paid.
"hires for" doesn't just mean "in-house recruiter"
Hiring is probably not their only responsibility