this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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Same reason it's legal for HP to brick your printer if you use third party ink. You violated their shitty TOS that none of us read because it's 80 pages of legalese, but you agreed to it.
hmmm yes I suppose that's true. Okay so let me rephrase: I'm amazed it's legal for a car manufacturer to even HAVE a TOS like that when you purchase a car. It shouldn't be legal to write language like "you are purchasing this but agreeing that you can't use it" ... wtf?
I agree that it's wrong, but I don't think, at least in the U.S., that there's any law against it. Like I said, HP does the exact same thing with their printers. I certainly would like for it to be illegal.
Can any fill in how this is in the EU right now, as they often have better legislation regarding this issue?
In Germany, BMW and VW both offer subscriptions for functionality already built into the car. BMW is notorious for their heated seat subscription here and the Mk8 Golf I leased for a while had a bunch of minor stuff pay-walled like automatic high beams, changing color of the interior ambient lighting, etc.
You can still outright buy those features but it’s totally insane to pay for something that’s already physically inside the car. And it’s not like these are budget brands that need to upsell a bunch of stuff to be profitable. A base Golf starts at €31k…
As for Tesla, at least where I am in the EU, there is only one feature offered as a subscription: a mobile network connection for the car. Keeping its SIM card active basically. That one makes sense, I'd say.
Then there are three "features" that you can buy outright after the fact: an "acceleration boost", that one is dodgy, and two levels of their auto-pilot/self-driving. The latter two currently do effectively nothing (especially in Europe that is also true for enhanced autopilot), so they are more or less an option to say "here have some money for future development" if you have too much...
No heating subscription or anything like that. I was going to say that I think the local laws seem to have at least discouraged them a bit, but BMW and VW are trying it too, so I don't know.
So I’ve been in discussions like this for equipment on trains. It functionally goes:
You paid for X. The hardware we plan to use for faster build supports X+Y. You can either:
I actually agree with the options prevented above. I just think that, as the owner, you should still have the right to reverse item 2 if you can figure out how. Especially if it’s out of warranty.
Don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple.
“Don’t like it? Move”
That’s the same dangerous logic. Heaven forbid people try to make things better.
First they enshittified Tesla and I didn't care cuz I didn't buy Tesla
Then they enshittified GM and I didn't care cuz I didn't like GM
Then they enshittified Toyota and I didn't care cuz I didn't buy Toyota
....
Then they'd enshittified everything, and since they also cut all corporate taxes and subsidized the oil companies my town has no public transit and I walk by the side of the road.
Lets be fair
TOSs you need two lawyers and an ai chatbot to explain to you, shouldnt be legal vs regular citizens.
They cannot expect anyone to read all TOS they get thrown in their face throughout a lifetime. Let alone understand them. Its often not written super clearly and not all users can even read the language very well to begin with.
I don't disagree. I'm just saying how things are, not how they should be.
I really wonder if there's a way to use LLMs just to point out every concerning thing in a EULA/TOS
To what end? Probably every eula/tos you click through has concerning shit that is against your best interest. Either you use the product or you don't.
Yeah but I want to know just how fucked I am when I sign it
TLDR If you're the consumer, you're always the fucked party of a TOS.
That’s why EULAs or other contracts are not necessarily legally binding if they contain specific parts that could be considered “unfair”; at least in the European Union.
You can give this a try
https://www.tosdr.org/
Probably not ChatGPT because who knows what was in its EULA and we couldn't use it to summarize it before agreeing to it.
Bet you could but not sure what that would get you. So you don't click agree to it. Now what?
Lobbying.