this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2025
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People like looking at photos of food and cats more than being railed for having "incorrect* political viewpoints? (/s for anyone not picking up on that btw:-P)
I literally just got called a snowflake in another thread for saying people should stop posting US politics in general communities. People still wonder why Lemmy has a bad reputation even in the entire Fediverse... Sometimes I wonder why I still bother here.
Yeah, that's definitely a shame. Let's see how it goes, but I'm about to create a !usdefaultism somewhere just to list those occurrences
2024
Less than half, that actually surprises me. I honestly assume most people I meet online are Yanks.
Nowadays, other countries also have Internet and can speak English
I think a lot of people talk like Yanks, or just don’t clarify. I’ve had conversations with other Brits where we both assume the other is a Yank.
Happens to me a lot too, when actually none of us are from the USA
I could see the numbers being a little different for Lemmy, but I don't expect that they're wildly different.
I seem to remember Germans were like 10-20% at one point, but that might have evened out over time
Would make sense with how they handled the migration from /r/ich_iel
Sie haben gerufen?
Yoink
Grabbing that for future reference. That's the stats from 2024? Is there like a link to the actual source? Significantly more US-centered then I thought, especially since one would assume the numbers were even more skewed 5-10 years ago.
Lemmy is much more weighted towards an international userbase in my experience, which can be frustrating for the American audience at times, but also has its benefits.
I get it but that sounds so weird to me, lol
Doesn't seem like a super reliable source. I just grabbed the first result I googled.
I got it from here: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1bg323c/oc_reddit_traffic_by_country_2024/
It lists worldpopulationreview.com on the image.
There this statista link which has similar numbers and sounds more detailed, but still doesn't have sources available. Google's AI points to statista.
So nothing definitive. But I certainly expect that most users are from the US.
You inspired me to do a bit more digging. I found the page on world population review.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/reddit-users-by-country
Which lists this site as the true source. Looks pretty legit to me. Seems to be a paid service.
https://www.semrush.com/website/reddit.com/overview/
They've got US traffic listed around 51% for December 2024, so it's actually gone up significantly compared to the March 2023 figures cited by world population review
https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/reddit-traffic-report-march-2023pdf/257621808
Went from 2.32 billion US visits in March 23 to 3.17 billion in December 24, while Indian visitors actually declined significantly in the same period.
Would you have such stats for LW? Really curious as it feels more balanced here
With the data from https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list,
Honestly neither of these give a very good impression of where users are from, but I don't think lemmy collects that data. Maybe if there was some way to check which languages people have listed?
Yes, it's a bit difficult to infer any trend indeed, could be thousands of 1 person instances.
Languages don't really work either, people tend to just speak English on the Internet. That's why I was asking Serinus, I thought maybe on LW they would have some data
Actually I remember this data from lemmy.zip:
https://lemmy.zip/post/29448608?scrollToComments=true
i just hate the way most people here assume everyone is coming from US smh
Or the vast majority of political spam from only one country. I’d like more of a worldview. Be interesting to see how others have other problems and how it might be solved with other solutions.
I guess I am a snowflake too then, bc to me consent should matter. And while the USA is a part of the world, and also has an oversized effect upon it due to the size of the economy and trade deals and the like, it also can be overwhelming for some, who feel ostracized and left out as if only the big guys (and guns) matter.
But on the other hand, it is known that moderation sucks across the vast majority of Lemmy - it's somewhat baked right into the tools themselves, e.g. removing whole posts rather than merely taking them out of the community lists but allowing people to continue their discussions already begun, as Reddit does.
So you may want to take it upon yourself to either start blocking by keywords (maybe find an app that allows that - I'm not sure which ones), or user accounts that do that, or even find a better community to engage with.
Though I agree with your conclusion: I no longer recommend Lemmy to people irl by virtue of having been burned by that far too many times before. We're toxic AF in this Alt-Left (rather than Alt-Right) "Nazi bar" space, and a lot of the people here are legit those banned from Reddit for exactly that behavior.
Moderation isn't ideal, but absent moderators aren't going to moderate even with the best tools
I mean, PieFed has some really cool thoughts about doing exactly that... I'm hoping for a lot there.
As it is, Lemmy is simply a more authoritarian version of Reddit - at the low level I mean, next to the users, who e.g. have no modmail recourse to discuss anything, nor even receive a notification that their content has been removed. Even while it is also open source so allows instance admins greater freedom to implement whatever policies they choose - disabling downvotes for example.
Anyway the more the technology can do the less reliance upon human efforts to moderate. e.g. to facilitate automated community discovery, so that there is lowered barriers to getting away from bad moderators.
PieFed is highly promising, but I wish you didn't feel the need to go overboard with criticizing Lemmy. Calling Lemmy a more authoritarian version of reddit... that's a pretty wild take.
That's like calling tribal societies more authoritarian than Stalinist or fascist states. There's no such thing as low-level authoritarianism, that doesn't make any sense. The users can message the mods directly, and they can go as they wish and do as they please. It's like calling the nuclear family unit authoritarian, it becomes a nonsensical concept when applied to human-scale social organization. It refers to large scale social units such as nations and political parties, not small groups of freely associated individuals like Lemmy.
You're still stuck in the reddit mindset where there isn't anywhere else to go, everything is contained in one closed box controlled by spez. On Lemmy you can go and build your own box, and there are already dozens to choose from that are free and open to join.
How would the users message mods directly when the modlog just says "mod"? They could message each one directly, or mass spam all at once, but in general the tools are highly biased to protect mods rather than grant power to the content creators.
On Reddit - which I haven't used since practically the Rexodus so am definitely not shilling for it here - after a post is removed, people can still continue to discuss things in it. So if I typed a long reply to someone it would still make its way to them. Here, it's just poof gone, and a whole long response, possibly not even to OP but to someone else, I can't even send it anymore. All of those discussions that the OP spawned - they are all just gone. Nor can I look them up later if I have the URL - the entire post is gone, not simply removed from the community listing of posts but taken away from the community entirely, all of the work put in, by The People, removed from them by a possibly capricious mod. With no recourse to do much of anything except complain.
I already mentioned how the admins have more freedom yes, so I am talking here strictly below that level, the interactions between mods and content creators.
Remember the context of this thread is me responding to "People still wonder why Lemmy has a bad reputation even in the entire Fediverse..." So my purpose is not to whinge but to discuss practical solutions to improving that reputation. Putting the power back into the hands of The People rather than mods would go a LONG way. Like, even just sending a notification upon removal of a post or comment - there is much that Reddit does that if we did, would help. Or perhaps we can find even better solutions, but not if we don't even so much as try.
Also, even if you did become your own instance admin, that does next to nothing for you if you still want to interact with people on other instances - it allows you to create your own communities on your own instance, but if you want to make comments on OTHER communities on OTHER instances, then everything that I said above still holds true - you still don't get a notification if your content is removed, you still can't continue conversations or even so much as view posts that have been removed, etc. Looking at the moderation practices of the Lemmy developers used on Lemmy.ml explains so much of why admins and mods have so much power, but the individual posters have so little. In some ways
Reddit is more authoritian - at the top - but in other ways we are even more so here than there. We need to do better. I doubt that we will, but we should. Although we won't unfortunately, which means that people will remain on Reddit. Especially the ones who already seem okay with spez - to them, there seems not much to entice them to come here, for an objectively worse experience, for someone who doesn't want to put in the effort to learn how federation works much less to host their own instance? At which point we seem to me to be deluding ourselves - "People still wonder why Lemmy has a bad reputation even in the entire Fediverse...", bc we are not honest about who and what we are. e.g. we may be Linux users and self-hosters, who nonetheless still have fewer rights in some ways than we did on Reddit. Which we were fine with bc the software is still being developed but... how long has it been since the Rexodus, and we have seen little improvements made in some of these areas? And in this particular area, actual negative progress made bc the modlog used to say the name of the account of who removed something, whereas now it just says "mod" - which would be fine if there were a modmail, but again, there isn't.
I am not counting negative progress as "progress". And I am losing all hope for Lemmy to ever improve in these regards yes - in fact I no longer recommend it to anyone, ever, bc I've been burned far too often on that in the past. I do still hold out strong hopes for the Fediverse tools though - Mbin, PieFed, and possibly Sublinks all show much promise for the Threadiverse (or whatever name for forum-based Fediverse). One day far from now Lemmy will remain the tankie Threadiverse, and people won't be dependent upon having to choose between just Reddit vs. it, bc there will finally be other options, and people will begin to be more free. And before you argue back: yes, it was thanks to Lemmy that got us here (or more to Kbin for me and so many others). But that is no reason to not seek to continue to improve by putting power into the hands of The People, even if Lemmy is not willing or even if it wants to head in the exact opposite direction.
In the case of "DMs on removal of a post / comment" it is possible to do that with the current api of lemmy. But sadly nothing "official" yet. And it wont come anytime soon as lemmy devs officially announced they wont work at any moderation related topics for a while.
I am not saying that I want DMs enabled to mods, and a modmail, and for a post to remain accessible after being removed, and for notifications to be sent to people upon their content being removed, but the lack of all 4 at the same time is what makes Lemmy difficult for people to handle, and will turn people away (likely back to Reddit).
Like said if the instance has basic autmation at least 1 is doable.
The lack of modmail and notifications when content is removed is still an issue. Not authoritarian, that seems much, but a better moderation experience from both sides would make the platform better for everyone.
Nobody is arguing that and it's irrelevant to my comment. You're simply pointing out the fact that Lemmy moderation tools are not yet full featured, which is unsurprising given we are still in alpha. This is a completely different criticism than the criticism of authoritarianism which I was defending against.
Please stop responding to every single comment I make, if you wouldn't mind. I've had to reply to you like 50 times over the past week. I'll let you do your thing and you let me do mine.
Honestly, for how many tech/open source people are on lemmy its surprising how few community contributions there are to the actual software.
It’s what’s turned me off this entire time. Everything is replied to with someone virtue signaling.
Someone called you a snowflake? Ok....uh, I'll call you a carrot.
But also, I don't understand the rules for this game. It's a snowman game, right?
Its nice right now...Hope it stays.
How dare you!! Here's why you need to be vegan right now by the way grumble grumble grumble