~ Code Crafters Cafe ~
Hello everyone. You know me from two scandalous topics: It's time to return to the roots, to the C programming language and Why is C hidden gold.
I have got enough answers and a predictable assessment. You might have thought that I was some old man from the past or an inadequate newbie who did not understand what he was saying. Some supported me. These topics were clearly fanatical. It's true. In fact, I am not for fanaticism. I am for restoring the true goals of programming as an art.
I created my "cafe" even before this, first in irc, then in the matrix. This is a place for people who perceive programming as creativity, art, handmade, crafting. Here we are not tied to C or other languages. If you are a Rust programmer and do not want to rewrite the whole world in Rust, you are welcome. If you are a JavaScript programmer and do not think that you need to learn TypeScript instead of JavaScript (because it is unsafe) and that everything should be written in Angular and React, you are welcome. You are tired of writing SaaS garbage, you are welcome. Whether you are a CSS artist, or just a creator, you are welcome. No idols, fanaticism, or heroes.
A cozy place where you can share a common vision and feeling with like-minded people. The only rule is to be human and respectful.
Official description: ~ A cozy place in the jungle of the techno world for all programmers who like to create high-quality and effective code from scratch with their own hands. Hobbyists, professionals, beginners, and just curious about how things really work. Handmade, free and open-source software written with a love for engineering and deep knowledge is code crafting. ~
Welcome to our campfire:
irc: irc://irc.libera.chat/#codecrafters
matrix: https://matrix.to/#/#codecrafters:bsd.cafe
Side note, it's not so much React, Angular, Vue or whatever that sucks, it's the concept behind: #SPA. Or, more precisely, that concept used not in a niche where it belongs, but for every damn web site, or classic form-based web app. I remember getting into some very weird arguments with "frontend devs" over a simple demo class I wrote in vanilla JS to "enhance" a standard browser control (so, it still worked without a script). This class was pretty short and clean. Still they insisted it would be "hard" to program like that. It seems they can't do the simplest things any more without the help of their massive shitloads of "frameworks". And then, everything is a stupid SPA in the end, completely breaking the logical design of the web.
Ok, back to admiring the pure elegance of #C, sorry ๐
CC: @[email protected] @[email protected]
SPA can be good and fast written in vanilla JS. Modern standard has all necessary features, from promises to private fields.
Sure, that's yet another aspect. #Javascript (#ECMAscript to be precise) evolved a lot. Where we came from was a very limited standard and browsers doing their own incompatible thing, also adding "random" bugs, which btw triggered development of #jQuery, back then an extremely helpful thing, nowadays more or less obsolete. I'm sure writing a well-working #SPA with nothing but vanilla JS is perfectly possible these days, it just requires some planning and design, you'd probably end up with a (minimal and tailored to your needs) "framework" as part of your project. But from my experience, most "frontend devs" are indoctrinated into a strong belief you absolutely need super-fat frameworks for everything.
What I was talking about is that these you mentioned (React, Angular) are designed with nothing but SPA in mind. So, everything will end up being an SPA, which just makes no sense for 95% of "web apps". There's a nice set of architecture guidelines for web apps called #ROCA, which is in line with the initial design of #http and the web in general: https://roca-style.org/ -- and then, you decided in your organization to follow that, you have the need for some enhanced UI components in JS, and these frontend guys basically keep telling you "we need our awesome framework here". Oh boy. ๐คฆ
In the end, I see the resident set of my local browser and have no questions left...