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Welcome
Welcome to c/[email protected]. Broadly, this community is a place to discuss veganism. Discussion on intersectional topics related to the animal rights movement are also encouraged.
What is Veganism?
'Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals ...'
— abridged definition from The Vegan Society
Rules
The rules are subject to change, especially upon community feedback.
- Discrimination is not tolerated. This includes speciesism.
- Topics not relating to veganism are subject to removal.
- Posts are to be as accessible as practicable:
- pictures of text require alt-text;
- paywalled articles must have an accessible non-paywalled link;
- use the original source whenever possible for a news article.
- Content warnings are required for triggering content.
- Bad-faith carnist rhetoric & anti-veganism are not allowed, as this is not a space to debate the merits of veganism. Anyone is welcome here, however, and so good-faith efforts to ask questions about veganism may be given their own weekly stickied post in the future.
- before jumping into the community, we encourage you to read examples of common fallacies here.
- if you're asking questions about veganism, be mindful that the person on the other end is trying to be helpful by answering you and treat them with at least as much respect as they give you.
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Resources on Veganism
A compilation of many vegan resources/sites in a Google spreadsheet:
Here are some documentaries that are recommended to watch if planning to or have recently become vegan:
- You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again
- Dominion (2018) (CW: gore, animal abuse)
Vegan Fediverse
Lemmy: vegantheoryclub.org
Mastodon: veganism.social
Other Vegan Communities
General Vegan Comms
Circlejerk Comms
Vegan Food / Cooking
Attribution
- Banner image credit: Jean Weber of INRA on Wikimedia Commons
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But why chickpeas and rice syrup? There's lots of vegan hazelnut spreads which taste better than Nutella and don't need such rather exotic ingredients...
There’s nothing exotic about garbanzo or rice.
Well, here in Germany, chickpea is relatively exotic. And I've never seen rice syrup as an ingredient in anything that wasn't specifically made for vegans.
It just feels like they created a product specifically for the vegan market, which means they're alienating parts of the non-vegan market. And yeah, I just don't feel like that's necessary.
Have you ever heard of hummus? It’s this exotic food from the old world. It’s made from sesame, chickpea, garlic, and oil. You’ve got to try it.
I have tried hummus. If I remember correctly, all the ones I found in the store came with cumin, which unfortunately doesn't taste good to me (I'm guessing a gene thing).
It’s pretty easy to make! But you may have to shop at some kind of worldly market to find chickpeas and tahini.
"Well, here in Germany, chickpea is relatively exotic."
Where? Because.. I've been around a little bit and it wasn't. But maybe somewhere rural where pizza is still seen as weird foreign food?
Well, I'm from Southern Germany, so pizza has definitely arrived even in the most rural regions.
But rural regions is a good shout. I'm pretty sure, my dad has never eaten anything with chickpeas, at least not knowingly. Like, you can find it in the store, it's easy enough to put a can of it on the shelves. And what's also generally arrived in rural regions, is döner kebap, where I believe the shops will usually also have hummus available. But yeah, you still have to go out of your way to try it.
The shelves are full of chickpeas here in Germany, what are you talking about
As I wrote elsewhere already, I'm not saying that it's not available in stores. I'm saying that a sizeable portion of the population didn't grow up with it and therefore might not be terribly eager to try it.
This entire comment confuses me.
I can't speak to Germany, but at least where I am, chickpeas really aren't exotic, even to people who really don't know much of anything about other cultures. (Also, this won't be in the German market yet; closest is the Belgian one.)
I've never heard of this stereotype of rice syrup being especially prevalent in vegan products. I see rice syrup as a bit exotic, but not in a way that anyone who isn't vegan but would be willing to buy vegan Nutella would think "well that's just too out there for me. Syrup? Gross."
That does seem to be the point of them removing dairy, yes.
?_? How would this be alienating to someone who's not vegan would otherwise try it as a vegan alternative? Like say what you want about enormous corporations like Ferrero, but I'm at least reasonably confident they did some market testing for this. The problem this comment is addressing feels extremely manufactured. If it doesn't appeal to you, that's one thing, but it feels like you're overgeneralizing your own niche experience onto everyone else.
It's also not like only vegans are going to be buying this. There are other people who don't drink milk or milk products or people who are lactose intolerant etc
The honest answer might be that the V-word is just off-putting to quite a few omnivores.
To be fair, this is a forum where people express opinions, and opinions tend to be based on personal experience.
In this case I agree with them. In northern Europe at least, there are already vegan Nutella clones that are widely available and tastier than Nutella (which is tasty). For instance Nocciolata, which has a "dairy free" variant, i.e. vegan. Very delicious indeed but also quite expensive.
The discussion was about the ingredients being too exotic, not the labeling, but regarding the labeling, I don't understand how a vegan product marketed toward vegans by indicating it's vegan is a bad decision. Nocciolata puts up the label "vegan" too (it's also palm oil-free, which is cool). Again, I'm sure Ferrero understands what their target audience is for this and have accounted for the extremely-close-minded-omni demographic.
Difficult to argue with that.
Hey, though, you're the first person in this thread to actually mention by name a vegan Nutella alternative that doesn't use palm oil, so you win first prize. 🏆🥳
I mean, I might very well just be talking of my niche experience. My dad has probably never eaten anything with chickpea in it and is absolutely not interested in trying any new foods.
That also unfortunately includes trying Nutella alternatives. He's been eating Nutella since the 70s and even though Ferrero has gradually made the recipe worse, he hasn't noticed enough to want to try something else.
You could probably just as well gradually swap the milkpowder with chickpea + rice syrup and he wouldn't notice either, but since they're specifically marketing it as a separate variant, he's just never going to try it.
Clearly, my dad is a special case. But I just feel in general that many non-vegans will not want to try the vegan variant, because its recipe is so different, whereas they could've also created a vegan variant that just doesn't use milkpowder.
And yes, they will have done some market testing, which is why I'm asking 'why'. Maybe they can sell the specifically-vegan variant at a higher price. Maybe chickpea and rice syrup are actually really cheap for them to get. Maybe they figured, they should introduce these ingredients to match the original Nutella's taste as closely as possible, because otherwise people will just by the alternatives. There is probably some reason, I'd just like to know what it is.
Today I learned chickpeas and rice are exotic