this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
782 points (99.2% liked)
Europe
1502 readers
430 users here now
News and information from Europe πͺπΊ
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in [email protected]. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
(This list may get expanded when necessary.)
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @[email protected], @[email protected], or @[email protected].
founded 4 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I wonder if this could help the IT workers from the public sector in Germany (E12, around 2500 β¬/month).
Anyone knows why it is like that?
Once, I heard about some speculative extra amounts made by guarantees in purchases. (Germans love guarantees, and any hardware purchase has a 50% surplus that can easily be split 1:1 between vendor and whoever was in charge. Yes, it would be illegal.. But nearly impossible to prove.)
I work in the Dutch public sector in IT, but with a few years of experience, I'm already beyond 4k/mo.
Sounds like the union isn't pulling it's weight...
In this case the Unions and HRs rigidity could be part of the problem.
They tend to make groups based on formal qualifiaction. E.g. all trade apprentices get similiar salaries, all trade masters, all bachelor degrees and all master degrees (simplified).
So a person with just a formal trade apprentice, but great experience and proven know-how will still get a much lower salary than a recently graduates business degree "idiot" who mostly managed to study based on his parents pushing him through.
I've seen Job ads for cloud experts, who are supposed to organize an infrastructure over multiple data centres, running hundreds of different services in a heightened security environment offered around 3k. The Operations people said that this does not need a masters degree, because they didn't want to filter out all the self taught people, and then HR and the Union reps said this is a trade level position so it gets a trade level salary.
From what i understood with the complexity of the IT landscape they would have needed to offer more around 6-7k to find people.
You're net salary is beyond 4k? Are you hiring?
Why net all of the sudden?
Because the German salary is net and I thus assumed that the Dutch salary is as well.
What do you mean by βsuddenβ?
Why net? In Sweden we only ever talk about gross, or as we save "before taxes", as it varies around the country.
Germans do too, no idea what OC was thinking about. It indeed doesn't make sense to talk about net as that changes with personal circumstances.
The group E12 that was mentioned starts at 4170β¬/ month gross. That's just under the German average wage (but above Median).
Same in the Netherlands, so I'd assume the Dutch salary is gross as well.
Well the German one isn't though, so this is like comparing apples to oranges
Yeah I think that's the point they were trying to make :)
I guess I was doing it too subtle :)
Because E12 refers to a very specific salary table. Hence the German salary must be net.
Why would you compare Net and gross salaries?
Those jobs exist, and are hiring. My company (US-based, Software, between 1k and 10k employees) is hiring architects in Germany (anywhere, 100% remote) for significantly over 4k net. Starting salary is over 100k, plus a nice RSU package (4 year vest with 1 year cliff). Other similar companies offer comparable compensation packages.
We do require a quite wide tech knowledge and good communication (customer interaction is part of the job, sometimes public speaking). It is not as relaxed as public sector, tho, most weeks are over 40h. Some traveling required, too.
If anyone is interested feel free to ping me (full disclosure: Iget a 5k USD referral bonus if you get hired and pass the Probezeit).
Ping. Contact me via PM please.
I am interested as well
Feel free to pm me if you have any questions :)
Something I forgot to add above: since the position requires speaking with customers, most countries require fluent local language (apparently with the exception of Scandinavia).
Got the knowledge I think, but not the spunk for the hours. You wouldn't hire 4 days a week would you :-) ?
I'm not the hiring manager, but as far as I know we don't hire part time :(
Thanks anyways π !
It's gross, not net. The net amount is like 3200.
Weirdly, I work for an international company that does location-based pay, and the pay scales in the Netherlands are about 9% lower than those in Germany π
These are the payment scales in the Dutch government: https://www.caorijk.nl/cao-rijk/hoofdstuk-6/salarisschalen
My sector is scale 10 or 11 depending on starting experience. 10 grows a bit faster the first few years to reflect a junior position.
Yeah sorry, I meant the pay scales within my company - i.e. a colleague of mine moved from Germany to the Netherlands, kept the same job at the same level, and had to accept a 9% pay cut.
Oh wow. That is harsh.
Sounds more like the union is not needed at all in that sector. 2500β¬/month is a fine starting pay, especially if it rises so rapidly.
E12 starts at 4.170,32 β¬ gross and up to rises 6.516,74 β¬ depending on experience. That is gross. That is for a job, which is low stress and you can not be fired unless you pretty much commit a crime on the workplace.
Maybe government IT in Germany is low stress. Maybe the average in my country is also. But my department surely isn't low stress. Could be because I work at a research institute that has been leading the charge into public cloud?
There's also the possibility that the definition of stress differs. I'm in an IT position where I control most of my schedule and pace of work, I work at home without much supervision, and I'm very much a trusted employee. That means I have less body stress and other stresses than a large amount of people, but at the end of the day my mental stress can still give me headaches and wear me out (and of course real life stresses. I'm paid pretty well for the company I work at, but it's still kinda low to be supporting myself and a family member still trying to find employment).