this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
633 points (98.6% liked)
Technology
58073 readers
3072 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I didnt know so many servers still run windows.
I'm the corporate world, very much Windows gets used. I know Lemmy likes a circle jerk around Linux. But in the corporate world you find various OS's for both desktop and servers. I had to support several different OS's and developed only for two. They all suck in different ways there are no clear winners.
It's not just a circle jerk in this case. Windows is dominant for desktop usage but Linux has like 90% of the server market and is used for basically all new server projects.
Paying for Windows licensing when it doesn't benefit you, it's silly, and that's been realized for years.
Web servers, sure, but even companies that manage infrastructure like Google and Amazon have a LOT of Windows servers kicking around for shit like AD, Outlook, Federation, Office/Teams, etc.
Thank för addressing Lemmy circlejerk för Linux . They really take it far
Issue is not just on servers, but endpoints also. Servers are something that you can relatively easily fix, because they are either virtualized or physically in same location.
But endpoints you might have thousand physical locations, and IT need to visit all of them (POS, info/commercial displays, IoT sensors etc.).
Parent comment applies even more so to such endpoints imo
Do IoT sensors really run windows? If not, how are they affected?
My former employer had a bunch of windows servers providing remote desktops for us to access some proprietary (and often legacy) mission critical software.
Part of the security policy was that any machines in the possession of end users were assumed to be untrustworthy, so they kept the applications locked down on the servers.
I kinda wish my employer would do something like this for our current applications. Right before I started working there they switched from giving engineers desktops to laptops (work station laptops but still). There are some advantages to having a laptop like being able to work from home or use it in a meeting, but I would much prefer the extra power from a desktop. In mind the best of both worlds would be to have a relatively cheap laptop that basically acts as a thin client so that I can RDP into a dedicated server or workstation for my engineering applications. But what do I know ¯_(ツ)_/¯
It was a pain in the ass more often than not. If the application server was having trouble the entire department was at a standstill.
And getting config files, licence files, log files and the like in and out of the system was a long convoluted process.
We often joked that we were so secure that our hands were tied.
On prem AD. At least for my MSP's clients. Have been pushing hard last few years to migrate to azure.
I can’t imagine how much work it would be to migrate all your services onto Linux. The problem was people adopting windows in the first place.
I love the Linux bros coming out of the woodwork on this one when this could have very well have been Linux on the receiving end of this shit show. Given that it's a kernal level software issue, and not necessarily an OS one.
It's largely infeasible to use Linux for many, most, of these endpoints. But facts are hard.
Hey man, let us have this one. Any immutable/atomic distribution could have either prevented this or easily rolled back the update. Not to mention a Linux offering by something like Red Hat, for example, wouldnt recommend installing closed source third party kernel modules for exactly this reason. Not sure about the feasibility of these endpoints, but the way things are generally done on, and the philosophy of, Linux could very well have avoided this catastrophe.
Can you explain what is immutable/atomic distribution and how it can prevent this?
An immutable distribution is one that treats the system files as read-only. Applications are handled separately, and updates to the system are done in an image-based way, rather than changing a few updated files, basically the OS gets replaced with an updated version. It prevents users or malicious outsiders from just changing system files. Fedora Silverblue and SteamOS as found on Valve's Steam Deck are examples of immutable distros.
Now, with soemthing like Crowdstrike that operates in kernel space...I'm too far outside my wheelhouse to grasp how that would work on an immutable system. How it would be implemented.
My thought was mostly that this kind of invasive third party and closed source kernel module security wouldn't have been necessary. But I'm pretty sure rollbacks can include kernel changes in a previous image.
The is no single Linux. It's not a monoculture like that. There are many distros with different build options, different configurations and different components.
Also culture is different. Very few Linux admins would be happy putting in a closed blob kernel driver for anything. In Windows world that's the norm, but not Linux.
What's just happened to Windows world would be harder in Linux world. At worse, one distros rolls out a killer update. Some distros would just reboot to the previous kernel.
The Linux kernel has a special kernel extension scheme specifically to keep software like CloudStrike from crashing it https://ebpf.io/what-is-ebpf/ This is supported by CloudStrike on recent versions of Linux (if you're running an older version, then yes CloudStrike still has the ability to ruin your day)
They are just butt hurt that this whole thing really shines a light on how inaccurate the line of "the world runs on Linux" truly is.
The world runs on a lot of different things for different reasons and that does not fit nicely into their Richard Stallman like world view.
Just to clarify: the world runs in linux servers. The market share for the non-server market is abysmal.
Except lots of IoT things, router, etc. Also Cromebooks and Steamdecks. And us GNU/Linux people. Android is Linux, just not GNU/Linux. Really isn't just servers.
I don't know too much about IoT but I wouldn't say linux runs the world in any of the other markets you mentioned.
I would say while technically Android uses a modified linux kernel, you can't put it under the same umbrella.
Either way I don't want to get too much into these technicalities. I was simply trying to say that Linux is king on servers, not really on the market where all this crazyness happened.
Android makes RMS's GNU/Linux language make sense. It is a Linux, but not a GNU/Linux.
Google's attempt to fork Linux failed and now is mainlined so they can maintain as small a set of patches as they can. Once binder was merged, there is no fork anymore.
https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/drivers/android?h=v6.10
Android is basically a build config now.
TVs that aren't Android are probably GNU/Linux. Smart white goods are often Linux. Linux even get used in cars. Some of it under Automotive Grade Linux, but not all. If some random thing has a user interface, find licenses and you can normally see what FOSS went in.
You can do so much with so little, at no cost of licencing or access. Why wouldn't you?
You use things like Yocto and Buildroot to build a image that has nothing but what you need, how you need it.
Not quite the same thing. I doubt, for example, they have a big bag of device trees for different ARM devices to build from.
🐧: what is my purpose?
🧑💼: you run web servers.
🐧: oh my god
I appreciate that rick and morty ref
Proxmox with windows containers is used widely