this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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Should be a one-way ticket back to Syria. I immigrated here from America seven years ago, blend in seamlessly with the populace, and I still wouldn't fuck with a Canadian in fear of being deported (I'm also not an asshole). It's an absolute privilege to be here and I love this country. It's crazy to me that anyone else would have the opportunity to come here and then squander it by beating the shit out of a peaceful lesbian couple who are trying to enjoy their night. How incredibly brazen.
We need to focus on proportional representation to keep the conservatives from enabling these kind of thugs.
How are the conservatives enabling them?
Check the hate speech and the rcmp doing nothing of substance towards criminals they agree with
But conservatives don't agree with these criminals though. Canadian conservatives are pretty vocal against islamism and violent migrants who refuse to integrate and respect Canadian values, including tolerance of LGBT people. Actually it's pretty similar in the US too even when the conservatives are more extreme.
Ha just like your dear leader Pierre Poilievre hating on trans women. Speaks volumes about someone who got their pension at age 31.
I'm neither conservative nor am I PP supporter. I'm merely pointing out the reality.
Where did it mention Syria?
I see your point, but I have gay friends here in Montreal that were beat up by regular white dudes just because they were kissing in the street.
And what about the shootings that happened in the States in gay clubs? Those were white Christians.
If people are brought up as bigots, they're gonna be just that. Regardless of their origin or religion. Though I admit, in some places it's pretty systemic.
Actually the shooting at gay night clubs in the states are usually not white Christians. The most famous to me was the Pulse night club shooting by Omar Mateen, an Islamic extremist.
I think it's safe to say that anyone attacking the LGBTQ community is a religious extremist of some variety though.
Yeah, religion of any kind seem to breed bigotry.
citation ?
(legitimately, i've been looking for a useful resource for stats like this)
Well, if there are plenty of bigots, why import more?
That's not at all what I'm saying. And I don't see how you can even interpret my reply like that.
From a different article;
https://metro.co.uk/2024/07/02/lesbian-couple-beaten-gang-homophobic-attack-birthday-night-21142932/
It's not comfortable but stories like this are exactly why the right is gaining popularity and if the left continues to pretend not to see them and act like this then of course people aren't going to take us seriously.
We need articles to give us facts and talking heads to explain what's being done and what the big plan is to make sure that letting in large quantities of immigrants in doesn't have negative consequences for regular people.
If we act like we've never heard of such things while they are listing distressing examples then the average undecided is going to be swayed their way. As an idealist I wish the world had no boarders, we don't live in that world and i cant force the.world into it by ignoring reality. all the European countries going right have the same big reason for the shift, we can't go on pretending that if we ignore people's concerns and real problems that everyone else will ignore them too.
The "Right" harps on the fact that they are Syrians to somehow paint all Syrians, all Muslims, all immigrants with the same brush, stoking fears of population replacement and other such bullshit.
The "Left" says that we have already laws for mob violence, apply them. Bad people who are Syrians exist just like bad people who are Italians exist and just like bad people who are Americans exist and bad people who are Canadians exist. There is zero reason to weaponize the bad behaviour of those bad people to enact discriminatory policies against an entire community. Just apply the existing law. Persecute these assholes for the homophobic hate crime they did. Why is that not enough? In fact, the only people who would say this would not be enough are people with a hate agenda of their own, i.e., the far right..
There's a very strange phenomenon in Western left wing circles where there's a sizable portion that would go out of their way to defend these criminals and their behavior, and even go as far as attacking the victims, just because of their religious or ethnic background which they deem is beyond criticism and anybody who tries to call out these behaviors is racist. Calling out hateful aspects of cultures and religions and actually holding them accountable is not weaponizing anything, that's just being principled.
I'm in multiple left circles and had literally never heard such a thing, this is a conservative strawman.
You're either intentionally looking the other way without noticing or you're in a bubble. You can literally just browse the comments under this post or this very thread to see examples of what I'm talking about
Bro you did the thing right there.
If you condemn and criticize the individuals you would be right: these are vile people who acted out extremist hateful sexist violence. They suck, they should be arrested, tried and have the book thrown at them because their actions are disgusting.
If you want to make it about "cultures" and "religions", well, you're offside. You're extrapolating from a bunch of criminals to entire culture and an even larger religion. That's bigotry and "the left" would be correct to call you out on it.
Canadians as a whole are not violent islamophobes because some idiot shot up a mosque. Canadian culture is not vile and antisemitic because some other idiot shot up a Jewish school. The Christian religion as a whole is not antidemocratic just because some US evangelical trumpists did the January 6th thing. Same principle applies to Syrians or Muslims as a whole.
This is basic shit.
Ps. And no, the "aspects" caveat doesn't work. We didn't have a moral panic about antidemocratic aspects of Christianity because of Jan 6th. But it seems the far right loves to stir panic about "aspects" of Islam or brown people all the fucking time. You want to talk about "aspects" without being a useful idiot for the far right? Raise voices from within that community, who will know exactly how to walk that fine line.
I wondered the same, race was never a thing at our grade achool or highschool either in 80s or 90s. Like it never crossed our minds to think the brown/black kid, they were just kids, and some were the super popular kids. One of my white friends was super into rap and breakdancing and his entire friend circle was black. They called each other niggah as a greating ( but ER ending back then) Once I got into a career though I met a lot of the generation above me that were racist assholes. i'm not sure why our gen didn't win out over the older gen.
The middle eastern immigrants who can in to Western countries in 1970s until the 2000s were mostly educated, affluent, secular, and had a desire to assimilate. The middle eastern immigrants who started coming during the 2010s until now are mostly uneducated, poor, religious extremist, and have zero desire to assimilate. There's a pretty big shift in the pre and post Arab spring middle eastern immigrants. These immigrants we're seeing now here in North America and Europe are the real representation of those societies and why they are the way they are.
If you track down the original posts by the victims they have more details about the attack.
Ah, I saw this posted in two seperate places, and the first instance stated they were from Syria. I thought this was the same article.
You shouldn't face special punishments just because you're an immigrant.
This anti-immigration dogwhistling needs to stop. It's unbecoming for people who aren't members of the alt-right.
Yes you should. You have an expressed interest in moving to a new place, learn the laws. Fit in, adapt. None of this hyper religious dogmatic bs. I too am an immigrant.
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you don't need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I donβt have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if youβre mentally an adult. If youβre still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
Assimilate or leave if your culture is intolerant.
Or try to change it from within for those who need it.
Tolerance has a limit
I mean if you move to a country that has equal rights, I think you should try not to brutally beat an lgbt couple because your god hates the gays.
Same thing goes for if you move to a country that doesn't have equal rights.
You kinda do though. If you were to move to Russia and loudly voice liberal opinions you will not have a good time. You might not have to adopt the local culture as your own but you can not go against it.
I mean it's the whole tolerant paradox right. Why should we tolerate absolute douche nozzles to stay? To make things clear I absolutely despise the far right rise going on in Europe, and speaking from a Swedish perspective I feel part of it started with the rise of the right wing Swedish Democrats. But a big reason they got so much air time is because they were the only ones who talked about immigration at all, so they could entirely steer the conversation. Had the other parties actually come up with reasonable polices around immigration in the first place I don't think SD would be as popular as they are now.
When you view things in the context of a social agreement, there is no longer any paradox.
If these people have broken the social agreement to be tolerant, they have then intentionally and explicitly removed themselves from that agreement, thereby opening themselves up to intolerance thanks to their intentional and explicit rejection of said tolerance.
Itβs much the same way as outlawing worked in the old days - in the absence of a police force, you willingly agreed to follow laws that had been laid down. If you openly broke those laws in clear defiance of them, you could be removed from their protections. Ergo, you became βoutside the lawβ, allowing anyone to harm or even kill you without legal censure.
Because if you clearly donβt want to be a part of an agreement, why should you have any right to benefit from itβs protections?
Everyone should be able to decide what country they swear allegiance to.
Just human decency, when you move to a new country you adopt their cultural ettiquette and obey their laws. If you move anywhere and tgink you can just be a terrible person while waiting for citizenship, then you don't represent the country. Its like probation at a job
Not really. If their culture has parts about it you disagree with, you donβt need to adopt those parts.
Ex: If I move to Russia, I don't have to become a bigot.
This will only make sense if you're mentally an adult. If you're still a child mentally, then going along with what other people do just to please them is the only thing that will make sense to you.
Thats why i said ettiquette not culture on its own. The good parts you should so
I'm a first gen immigrants to the US from Iraq. Immigrants should 100% face consequences for their actions. Immigration is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. People who chose to move to Canada or whatever country have to respect the laws, culture, and customs of the country they're moving to. If they're not willing to assimilate or integrate then you get stuff like this. These types of attacks aren't normal and we shouldn't normalize them like you're doing here by trying to coddle these people or give them special treatment because of their backgrounds. If their hateful because their culture or religion is hateful then we have to call them and take steps to ensure that we don't have that hate spread here. If an immigrant commits a heinous crime, like these homophobes did, and they don't have citizenship then they HAVE TO get deported. Otherwise there's no law, order, justice, or accountability. Basically countries like Canada would be no more.
π₯±
What a clown lmao
Ironic.