this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
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I've been doing this for some time now. Even if it's something that I consider important.

I just don't see the value in participating in a discussion that I have seen countless times already where the same points and arguments happen over and over again. One that I know wilI turn ugly. It's exhausting and I've decided to just opt-out.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

Religion.

Holy crap are do people on Lemmy seem to have a seething hate for them all. Not interested with debating over something we’ll disagree on. It’s just not a welcome topic here.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks 18 points 5 months ago (3 children)

I think most of us are tired of the vocal minority that exist IRL that are actively harming others (especially lgbtq+, women, and minorities) and the silent majority that are complicit with it, especially in the US.

Religion also seems to have a hatred of every other belief, explicit or implicit, e.g. if you don't believe in Jesus, you deserve to be tortured eternally. Why would I be tolerant of people that think that's capital g Good?

Plus, how can you have a debate when one side won't keep to the basic rules of evidence.

One last thing you might notice is that it's probably not Buddhism or Daoism that get hostile reactions. That might be worth inspecting.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

See, I think this is what they're talking about though. I hate Christianity. I was raised Protestant and because of other factors in my life, Christianity effectively ruined large swathes of my lifespan. It's still an active threat to me, and likely will be for my entire life. I'm likely to be a fairly stringent atheist forever.

All that said, edgy internet atheists are one of the most annoying archetypes to run into online. If even a whiff of a religious topic comes up, they pounce and nip and bark. They satisfy almost every stereotype the religious people have of them because they often seem to delight in the cruelty of knocking on beliefs. Like, my whole top comment still being relevant, religion has a reason to exist. It gives people feelings of hope, love, and belonging. Anyone who has experienced a lack of those can understand why people fall into religion and why it's like any other addiction.

I'm breaking one of my rules right now, talking about religion on social media, but I figured the "meta" aspect of this thread would make it productive. I hope I don't regret it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

No, lately it’s literally been, “all religion is a scourge on humanity.” Christianity doesn’t even broach the subject anymore.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I think most of us are tired of the vocal minority that exist IRL that are actively harming others (especially lgbtq+, women, and minorities) and the silent majority that are complicit with it, especially in the US.

Would you agree that a great deal of opposition to LGBTQ+, feminists, and minorities is similarly a reaction to a vocal minority from each of those groups that adopts a militant, hostile tone towards mainstream society and/or religion? If we accept that the existence of a vocal minority with problematic positions and behavior justifies treating all members of that group with a lack of respect, then we are doomed. We cannot allow the traumatized and incoherent members of society to modulate the interactions between different social factions.

Religion also seems to have a hatred of every other belief, explicit or implicit, e.g. if you don't believe in Jesus, you deserve to be tortured eternally. Why would I be tolerant of people that think that's capital g Good?

This is completely incorrect and reductive of the infinite variety of religions that exist. Even limited to just Christianity, most Christians would disagree with your assertion that people "deserve to be tortured eternally". This is an example of you taking the opinions of certain mentally disturbed individuals who happen to identify as religious, and extrapolating them to apply to all religious people. Allowing the crazy people to dictate the terms of the conversation.

Practically nobody keeps to the basic rules of evidence, religious or otherwise.

Buddhists and Daoists are much less relevant and known to Western civilization, so they are rarely even mentioned, let alone critiqued. I have no doubt there are plenty of Indian atheists who could absolutely dissect Buddhism and how it's actually problematic at times, but they're simply not on Reddit or Lemmy.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Would you agree that a great deal of opposition to LGBTQ+, feminists, and minorities is similarly a reaction to a vocal minority from each of those groups that adopts a militant, hostile tone towards mainstream society and/or religion?

No. That's victim blaming and disgusting. Women, lgbtq+, and other minorities actually get persecuted in modern times, not just offended while they clutch pearls. If you remain ignorant of that, it's willful and you need to be a better person.

This is completely incorrect and reductive of the infinite variety of religions that exist. Even limited to just Christianity, most Christians would disagree with your assertion that people "deserve to be tortured eternally".

No, my dude, I went to Catholic school for many years, attended Baptist services for many years, and most Christians don't go around saying, "Maybe God got that whole hell thing wrong."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Women, lgbtq+, and other minorities actually get persecuted in modern times

As do religious people. The world is much larger than America and Western Europe my friend, people all around the world are literally killed for their religion on a daily basis.

Then you should be familiar with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states

To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

Nothing in there about torture. And that's just the most mainstream Christian branch, there are innumerable alternative interpretations, some of which deny the existence of hell entirely. Such as annihilationism which is most commonly associated with Seventh Day Adventists and Jehovahs Witnesses today, but has been present in varying forms throughout Christian history.

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I hear hell isn't that bad /s. Catholics also say "Happy are the persecuted" so stfu. I can quote just as much BS as you can. And being persecuted isn't carte blanche to be a dick to others.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

being persecuted isn't carte blanche to be a dick to others.

That's precisely my point. When I called out the hostile and dickish behavior of some feminists, LGBTQ+, and minorities, your response was:

That's victim blaming and disgusting. Women, lgbtq+, and other minorities actually get persecuted in modern times, not just offended while they clutch pearls. If you remain ignorant of that, it's willful and you need to be a better person.

You can't have it both ways. Is it okay to act like a dick to other human beings if you belong to a "persecuted" group? If not, then why is it disgusting of me to point out such behavior?

[–] zero_spelled_with_an_ecks 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What I see from the lgbtq+ community is: "Leave us alone," when their rights and existence are threatened and I think it's ok to defend those things.

What I see from the religious community is: "Let's threaten the rights and existence of the lgbtq+ community," though they never use such neutral language. I don't think it's ok to commit violence, directly or otherwise, against people because they have a different sexual orientation, gender, race, or creed. It's not a defensive reaction, it's an offensive preemptive attack.

So it's not equivalent. Stop pretending it is.

You're not here in good faith. You're not clever. You haven't set up a brilliant rhetorical trap; you've just shown how ignorant you willingly remain.

You're not worth any more of my time, so you're blocked. Don't expect anything further.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

What you see is entirely subjective, and the fact that you don't seem to realize that your impression is subject to bias is concerning. It's not necessary for me to set up any kind of rhetorical trap because your position is inherently flawed.

I support LGBTQ people to defend their rights and existence, but that doesn't mean they get carte blanche to do whatever they want.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 5 months ago

People online in general, and it's becoming people in society at large at an alarming rate.