christiansocialist

I mean, I don't think it's a "legitimate issue" in the sense that it's something society needs to deal it, it's an interpersonal thing that sucks but that individuals need to deal with in the best way they can.

I think it's both. Just like any other issue that socialists talk about, like racism, sexism, classism, etc. They can all be "dealt with" on an interpersonal level, but ultimately there needs to be a societal change.

It really is possible to be attracted to someone and accept that the other person isn't attracted back and still be nonromantic friends. I have done it, and I still have those friendships many years later.

So I think that there needs to be more advice on how to do this, as I've rarely encountered someone who's successfully navigated it as you have. Maybe a separate post on how to do it? But anyways, should people want to pursue that option, I think it's something that the individual needs to assess based on the strength of their feelings. If they are not emotionally ready for this kind of change (and from what I've seen a lot, maybe most, cis-straight men aren't), then I think not seeing the person anymore might be the better option. Otherwise if they really want to try to make a friendship work (and actually try to be friends and not try to "get in" later) then I guess your advice would be helpful.

Were you initially attracted romantically from the beginning?

People say this, but let's be honest the "friend zone" is something most people experience, it just go cringe to use because of the way incels use it. Having romantic feelings for someone while trying to have a plutonic relationship with them is a frustrating thing to navigate. The issue is people getting an immature victimhood complex about it.

Yeah the whole incel thing has really poisoned the well on a legitimate issue like this. It's kind of funny how some leftists will talk about context when it comes to the faults of former AES states but on other issues (especially ones like this, i.e. dating) they completely ignore context and sound like your average lib. Oh well I guess we all have to continue to grow.

Also if it something you can't handle, better off just avoiding the person and trying to move on. Hoping plutonic friendship leads to romantic love is usually a fools errand.

I mean it works out for some people I suppose (for ex UlyssessT in this thread) but yeah I think remaining friends while still holding out hope is disingenuous.

I honestly think dunking on someone for this just kind of shows emotional immaturity

You don't speak for everyone.

I know, and I never claimed to. That's great that it worked out for you, and I'm happy.

I expanded on what I meant in the rest of the sentence (since you only quoted part of it and not the whole).

It's already rare enough for cishet men to have nonromantic friendships with cishet women; making it more antagonistic over time by normalizing fear and anger about "friendzoning" only makes that a little worse for everyone as time goes on.

Yeah I agree that the fear and anger shouldn't be normalized, but we should also normalize being open about our feelings and not suppressing them and remaining "friends" while still holding hope that it will become something more (which I also think can be super dangerous). I expanded on that in a reply to someone else if you wanna see it.

Maybe it seems silly from the outside, and you think they should just get over it, but I think people deserve empathy and support as much as possible. Ideally we can help people work through their shit and not let this little blip in their lives come to define them.

Yeah it definitely is a shitty feeling, and those that try to convince you it's not are honestly trying to gaslight you (whether intentionally or not).

Because if you continue hanging out with that person, the feelings will always remain. Like I said, maybe they somehow changed, but honestly, will a guy (this example is hetero-cis obv) who was initially attracted to a girl and then told "hey let's just be friends" actually change his feelings? I mean they're feelings because we kind of can't control them. So the guy needs to be honest with himself and with the girl. Otherwise he's basically staying in there to "try and get in" at a later time. That's disingenuous. He's better off spending his time trying with someone else. Maybe in that case he can remain friends with the girl since he has other options.

Interesting, can you expand on this and why you shouldn’t be friends with someone you’re attracted to? Like, do you think ‘platonic’ and ‘romantic’ are binary conditions?

Not strictly but they are more cut and dry then people like to think. And it seems to be perceived differently along gender lines (at least for straight cis relationships). Check out this video and look at the responses: https://youtu.be/T_lh5fR4DMA?feature=shared.

Now whether these responses are socially conditioned or somehow "innate" is a debate I leave to the scientists and sociologists, but there is obviously a perceived difference. I mean just look up "friend zone" standup routines on youtube or anywhere really, people talk about it all the time (https://youtube.com/shorts/zbjMJBixZI8?feature=shared and https://youtu.be/_KE6Y3VrMg4?feature=shared). The truth is that there are many dudes basically remaining in "friendships" disingenuously in order to get with the girl. This is not only disingenuous, but if the guy harbors resentment on being only considered "a friend" then it can lead to violent outbursts later in the "friendship." So it's not only bad for the guys involved, but can be potentially life-threatening for the women. So like I said, it's better to admit how you feel and if you still have those feelings, it's probably better to maybe be aquiantances at best, but not friends (unless your feelings have actually changed, which I think represents a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of those who get friendzoned).

it's completely disingenuous to remain "friends" with someone after you've been friendzoned

Retort: no it's not. Try being a normal person.

Did you read the rest of the sentence, or the paragraph? Or are you just knee-jerk reacting to a part of what I said? Honest question.

What the fuck man, is this a real concern average people have that I’m way too fucking alienated to understand

Yes it is a real concern. And honestly, I think leftists are terrible at giving dating advice, especially when it comes to men. There are some considerate leftists that actually give concrete advice (like start exercising, find clothes that fit better, maybe trim the beard so it looks nice, get a good haircut or shave it completely if balding, try to look people in the eye instead of looking down all the time, learn small talk, learn banter, learn how to express romantic interest, find that difference between confident and creepy and know when you've crossed it, etc.) Most of the "advice" I see is just "don't be a r!pist!" and "don't harass women!" Like bro that's obvious, but to the guy that's constantly getting rejected, especially when apps like Tinder make it so the a few super good looking guys pretty much clean house (and this dynamic absolutely spills over into offline interactions), there needs to be better advice.

When this advice is lacking, or people dismiss these young men because "there are so many other problems why would I care about MEN!", this can lead to alienated young men finding their way into reactionary spaces. In this case a little prevention is worth ten tons of cure.

And lastly, I'll say this, it's completely disingenuous to remain "friends" with someone after you've been friendzoned if you initially had romantic feelings for them and those romantic feelings still persist. Unless your feelings magically also changed to platonic ones, then there's a relational imbalance that will always linger. It's better to just say "hey I like you in a more romantic way and even though you want to be friends, perhaps it's better that we don't hang out."

I mean with Zizek's pro Ukraine shit and other weird takes, are they really that different?