this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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[–] [email protected] 46 points 10 months ago

Go / Wéiqí / Baduk is like the ocean, simple to understand near the shore, but unknowable and somewhat scary in it's greatest depths.

Games on a 9x9 board are faster and may help during early learning.

Tsumego are small contained Go puzzles, where there is one ideal solution to be found. (Gobandroid or similar)

There is a massive amount of knowledge at this website:

https://senseis.xmp.net/?StartingPoints

(All available under the Open Content Licence)

It is a humbling game. I know nothing about Go.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago

I'm here with my GO board game wondering why everyone has a block of wood and pebbles......

[–] [email protected] 31 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Newbies are often afraid or insulted to use "handicap" pieces, but the few free pieces given to a lower-rank player are actually quite effective at adjusting the balance with unevenly ranked players. It's not a huge advantage and doesn't fundamentally change the play of the game.

Using different sizes of board is also neat. I'm very fond of a short game using only a 9x9 board. Plays a lot faster, but trades strategy for a more tactical game.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Newbies are often afraid or insulted to use “handicap” pieces

I made this mistake! I started learning Go years and years ago, and it turned out the company where I was working at that time had a former 7-dan amateur player. When he found out I was learning he offered to play me, which I eagerly accepted. I didn't know this at the time, but 7-dan amatuer is the highest Go ranking one can achieve in Japan without playing professionally (there are separate 1-dan through 9-dan ranks for pros). For our first game, he offered to give me the full 9-stone handicap since I was just starting out. I thought that sounded excessive and suggested a 6-stone handicap instead, so that's what we did. He fucking destroyed me that game. It was not even remotely close. For the rematch, I humbly accepted the full 9-stone handicap.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Did those extra three stones make enough of a difference?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, he still won that second game but the outcome wasn't as lopsided. It definitely made the game more interesting for both of us.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I think it's neat that it was supposedly the hardest board game to get AI to understand and play effectively.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (3 children)

It wasn't until 2015 that the top Go player lost to an Ai while chess lost in 1997. It's wild how big that gap is when you think about how much tech had to improve to make it possible.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

It's an order of magnitude more complex than Chess, which I am just ok at, so kudos!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

And didn't people still find holes in the Go AI's algorithm and proceed to dunk on it afterward?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This is actually more impressive about AI. People used to think Go AI wouldn't be able to beat a human player until like 2050. I certainly thought that when I learned it in like 2010. Back then the strongest AI was like 1 Dan (amateur) at most. (9 Dan is the highest rank and professional 9 Dan which you need to play professional games to get to are much stronger than an amateur 9 Dan which is like 9 Dan from an online website. Also the games rankings go from 30 kyu which is the lowest rank to 1 kyu which is the highest "amateur ranking". After 1 kyu is the Dan ranks ranging from 1 to 9)

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

Great game, much like chess I have no one in real life to play it with and I lose interest quickly in playing random internet strangers, so it’s been quite awhile since I’ve touched it.

I think a thing that made a huge impact for me was finding a program full of life and death puzzles. It really helped to drill in what a “dead group” looks like, and helped me judge when to abandon a part of the board or continue fighting for control there. Unfortunately that was 15 years ago and I no longer remember the name of that program.

Otherwise I always found the idea behind influence on the board to be very powerful, if difficult to define. I always noticed that good players tend to start by putting pieces all around the board, generally hovering on the third or fourth line away from the edge. Even if they wont fight for those spots later, just that small presence is enough to disrupt how their opponent will play and gives an edge in defending or attacking that area later. I’m a novice player who hasn’t played in a decade so maybe its not great advice, but spread out early! I think it really helps. It makes it a lot easier to claim territory and also just push into your opponents, and hopefully they eat up a lot of space trying to defend that.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It is entirely unlike Go the programming language in that it is, in fact, a strategic board game, However, it may be possible to write a simple progam in ternary-encoded binary with the game pieces and board.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

I used to play a lot in college. KGS was very popular and fun to hang around. Hikaru no Go anime is really good. Also there is a documentary about Lee Sedol vs Alphago games. Check them out. It's best to play in person so check out local clubs and tournaments. r/baduk subreddit is fairly active.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

As others have mentioned, there's online-go.com for similar to lichess.org.

On Android there's Gobandroid, but it requires this for play against AI: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.ligi.gobandroidhd.ai.gnugo/

On desktop there's Sabaki:
https://sabaki.yichuanshen.de/

Haven't tried Sabaki yet, as I was using GoGUI running off GNU Go for a long time, but it's no longer in development.

#TableTopGames #GoGame #Gaming

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Also GNUGo on Linux.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

There is an incredible book called The Master of Go by Yasunari Kawabata, a Nobel-winning Japanese author. It's based on the true story of a master-level Go game that took six months.

I know that doesn't sound very interesting, but trust me. It really is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_of_Go

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I wanted to learn how to play after watching a few dozen episodes of Hikaru no Go, but it's such an obtuse game. Chess I can understand, but Go has a level of strategy that my mind just can't grasp.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

That's the great thing tho, the rules are very simple, anyone can pick up how to play. Then the strategy has so many layers that people can devote a lifetime of study to it, and it can become quite a psychological battle of wills between the two players in a way. But you can enjoy it right from the beginning without all that. And the handicap system means a game between players of very different skill can still be fun. Man I need to get back into playing go!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

+1 for Hikaru no Go

Bought a Go set and brought to chess club; that went well lol

Read the Janice Kim books from her Learn to Play Go series and played some online

In the end stopped playing from lack of local players; now I play various other board games instead

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

These were the group at college with the collective smell playing Magic: The Gathering. I suppose mild autism, or what used to be called Aspergers. Never disliked them, but they were certainly different. I'm likely somewhere on the spectrum, and not just because "it's a spectrum", but it didn't quite manifest like that for me.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I used to play MTG and can confirm the places I played almost always had that stale sweat smell.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You know, I always associated dirty, smelly degenerates with magic until I started playing - (I validated that by being the dirty smelly degenerate 😉) it was interesting finding out that potentially due to the high cost of the decks, a good part of the playerbase actually really had their shit together. We're talking engineers, pediatricians, lawyers etc. who could afford to throw $500 down on cardboard. Enough folks were married that my wife started calling the place "husband daycare"

Of course the smelly smell still made an appearance, I was able to determine if a particular person was in the local game store (LGS) by smell alone, the moment I walked into the store.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Are you saying they were oddballs who happened to play magic, or oddballs because they played magic?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I'm not sure how it could flow from the cards to the people, but I suppose they are magic. And there was usually a gathering. So anything is possible.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (6 children)

What app should I download (on Android) if I want to try Go? There are a lot of them, and I have no idea where most of the playerbase is.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I was hoping someone would comment on this actually. Every android app I've tried has been riddled with ads to the point of being impossible to play.

If someone has a good one PLEASE let us both know!

[–] joby 5 points 10 months ago

Just go to online-go.com in your preferred browser. It works great on mobile. There's a large collection of puzzles to do. Those are user submitted, which means the quality varies, but some people have put together some pretty good sets that work as tutorials for beginners.

OGS is the most popular server outside of Asia, and has a nice social side with chat rooms and... clubs? I don't remember their name for it, but you can join groups for finding teaching games, groups for people in your geographic region, etc.

I don't log on often these days, but I love teaching new players. Feel free to add me as a friend there (and maybe dm me here so I know to look). My name there is nomadfarmer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Just adding a reply here to direct you to my other comment, which summarizes some of the options.

https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/791813/-/comment/4808661

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Have you found the manga Hikaru no Go?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Why is that game named Five in Japanese if they have more than five pieces?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

it is the number of people to ever have won the game

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Gosh. Chess breaks my brain enough. I think I tried to tangle with Go for a bit after watching a doc about it but it was just too much for my feeble brain.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I've been following a series of tutorials by Go Magic. They have a YouTube channel! The videos are extremely well produced and explain things super well!

Edit: I grabbed a link

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Lose your first several games quickly.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

My main opponent right now is my boyfriend (who is also learning the game with me). Nothing we've done has been particularly quick in any sense.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Oooooh I'm so jealous, I cannot convince my man to play with me. It's nice to learn with someone at the same level as you.

Edit: The adage I was told was "To learn go, lose your first hundred games" with the modern addition of "quickly". For what it's worth, I lost my first 57 games on OGS. It is a good way to learn.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

Thanks for the actual quote! 👍

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

That was the advice given to me from my teacher so just passing it along :) I think it means all the options can be overwhelming, so don't overthink it and just play without hope of winning. You'll soon get a feel for what good moves are.

He also lent me a book that helped, so consider doing some reading. I wish I remembered the book's name. There is also this site: https://senseis.xmp.net/

Y'all should also play against other opponents/AI. Intermediate level opponents will help you to grow.

It's an amazing game. Glad y'all found it :)

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