this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2024

140 points (94.9% liked)

Android

17682 readers

466 users here now

The new home of /r/Android on Lemmy and the Fediverse!

Android news, reviews, tips, and discussions about rooting, tutorials, and apps.

💡Content Philosophy:

Content which benefits the community (news, rumours, and discussions) is generally allowed and is valued over content which benefits only the individual (technical questions, help buying/selling, rants, self-promotion, etc.) which will be removed if it's in violation of the rules.

Support, technical, or app related questions belong in: [email protected]

For fresh communities, lemmy apps, and instance updates: [email protected]

💬Matrix Chat

💬Telegram channels / chats

📰Our communities below

Rules

Stay on topic: All posts should be related to the Android OS or ecosystem.
No support questions, recommendation requests, rants, or bug reports: Posts must benefit the community rather than the individual. Please post to [email protected].
Describe images/videos, no memes: Please include a text description when sharing images or videos. Post memes to [email protected].
No self-promotion spam: Active community members can post their apps if they answer any questions in the comments. Please do not post links to your own website, YouTube, blog content, or communities.
No reposts or rehosted content: Share only the original source of an article, unless it's not available in English or requires logging in (like Twitter). Avoid reposting the same topic from other sources.
No editorializing titles: You can add the author or website's name if helpful, but keep article titles unchanged.
No piracy or unverified APKs: Do not share links or direct people to pirated content or unverified APKs, which may contain malicious code.
No unauthorized polls, bots, or giveaways: Do not create polls, use bots, or organize giveaways without first contacting mods for approval.
No offensive or low-effort content: Don't post offensive or unhelpful content. Keep it civil and friendly!
No affiliate links: Posting affiliate links is not allowed.

Quick Links

Our Communities

Lemmy App List

See thread

Chat and More

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

140

Sorry, Google: After Assistant's chaotic evolution, I can't believe in Bard (www.androidauthority.com)

submitted 9 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

29 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 29 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 129 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I just want my Google Now back. It was so smart by comparison to Assistant or all the other modern "AI" crap. It didn't try to write me a funny text, instead it contextually pulled actually useful information up so that when I get the idea to look at my phone for something, hey!, it's already there!

The craziest thing was my trip to the UK back in the days. In order, it did the following:

The evening before it asked me whether I want to be woken up a bit earlier (20 minutes) as the weather was expected to be very bad.
It reminded me to pack an umbrella in the morning.
When it had decided that my movement mode was driving (I had taken a taxi), it popped up that I needed to go to Terminal 2 at the airport (they have separate areas for dropping off passengers).
Once at the terminal, my ticket + it's QR code was persistent on the screen.
It also had a persistent notification with the boarding gate + the current expected time (there was a slightly delay, hence I noticed).
When I arrived at Heathrow, it offered on-foot navigation to the coach area.
When I got closer, the coach ticket + it's QR was persistent on the screen.
Once in the coach it offered me information that the weather at my destination was expected to be sunny. And when I would probably arrive, of course.

For-fucking-hell Google, that's exactly how I need a phone to assist me during a trip! I don't need some shitty voice interaction or long flowing texts made up of filler words and wrong facts. I need contextual information that fits the fucking context! Google Now was insanely smart. It also did lots of little things, like when I got somewhere with a car, parked it, then walked off a bit, if I then sat down for a long time when the phone was moved again (say... when you get up out of the Restaurant!) the parked position would pop up. Smarts. Not useful very often, but smarts.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

I still code with the mindset of "I need my software to be good or my clients will leave."

Google no longer operates like this. None of what you listed has any financial benefit to Google. You're not going anywhere. All they stand to do is make more money off of you. If they can simplify the software, from being handcrafted by humans perfectly for you, to, instead, generated by an unsalaried AI, they'll do that. They stand to lose mostly nothing and gain by reducing their workforce.

The competition for quality doesn't exist because the money they save by moving to AI is apparent across the industry. Everyone is looking to use it meaning the only competition is who can provide better cheap AI, not who can make a better product for their users.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (3 children)

You're not going anywhere.

Why? I dropped maps completely as soon as they started enshittifying it with elements I don't use that can't be removed from the UI; now I use only OSMand. I dumped Chrome when they announced manifest v3 and use Firefox. I dropped Google Play store when they made it difficult to see the exact version and it turns out f-droid has everything I need. I also dumped gmail for k9; their sms client for an open source one; I removed their Youtube client and use Newpipe. I always search with Ecosia or DDG before trying google.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Good for you, but you are not the typical customer. The vast majority of people will put up with the enshitification and Google (and every other large company doing the same thing) will continue to reap billions in profit.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Point is to provide an opportunity. Waze was it's own thing for a while, even better than maps at first.

Don't lie down and take it. You are worth more than that.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I agree, my comment probably didn't properly reflect that. But the reality is for the (less than) 1% of folks like us on Lemmy, there are a majority that will just go along and that isn't going to change anytime soon. For example

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

That's ok. There's always a first group to test and play with stuff, making it steadily more welcoming to newcomers.

Look what's happening with Lemmy. 😉

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

OSMand

I'll be honest, as much as I love how well it does, it's still leagues behind Google Maps. Would I be fine if Google Maps were to shut down? Sure. Just like how in theory, Apple Maps on DDG serves as a usable map system on the desktop. In reality, I see no reason not to use a competitor as superior as Google Maps, as long as I can. This isn't a Chrome-vs-Firefox situation where in many regards Firefox is the superior choice even on features, Google Maps is, for all it's woes, incredibly ahead of the competition.

Which makes sense: It's used so broadly, and can accumulate so much data about how people move about, it has access to a host of knowledge about motion and movement that other map system cannot match, be it out of choice or not. With OSMAnd+ it's a choice of course, but even if that weren't the case they just lack that ability. They cannot know how right now foot traffic in a certain area of downtown is quite slow due to a demonstration just having ended and a lot of people moving through a few adjacent streets back to the main train station. Google Maps can. Because like 75% of people in that crowd have it on their phones and enabled.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

When I need to, I actually use 'here we go'. Google is ahead of osmand, but only in the address finding Dept. I've gotten bitten by Google showing hours for a place that weren't correct, so now I just call.

If you don't need the extraneous info, here + organic maps works great.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The issue with this is that you're contributing to a never ending feedback loop.

If a product is successful enough to enable convenient features that everyone likes, that means that nobody will give competition a fair shake because they "just don't have those features that I need".

I know that most customers would argue that it's not their responsibility to give up on superior services just for the sake of giving competition a chance, but then whose responsibility is it?

In the end, products can only grow if you allow them to grow. Same thing with arguments like nobody using Peertube because YouTube has more content creators, or how nobody would use kbin or Lemmy because reddit has a much larger contributing userbase.

If you don't give competition a chance, you're only contributing to a monopoly. And then you're as much to blame as the company that's doing the monopoly

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

but then whose responsibility is it?

The competitors? If they had customers without adding those features they also would have no incentive to add them.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Yeah, but sometimes certain features can only be added when the company has a lot of money to back them.

Stuff like extremely fast buffering speeds due to good internet infrastructure to datacenters or elaborate DDoS protection for building entire clusters to cushion against huge data flows.

Or, if those are too technical, just think of the content creators on YouTube, who don't want to upload their videos to other platforms because YouTube is effectively a monopoly now, and so it would be pointless to give other platforms the time of day.

If not enough content creators give competitors the chance, then how can they be expected to grow enough to stand a chance, in the first place?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Which open source sms client do you use?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The vast majority of the world no longer uses SMS, so I doubt it's a problem the average customer has to worry about much.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Well I and people I know do use it regularly. I also think if I need someone to actually see what I sent them I will always choose sms just due to it arriving even in bad signal conditions and if the person has cellular data turned off. Especially if you go hiking into the mountains where cellular data really isn't an option.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I have QKMS on my phone for couple of years now

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

I still code with the mindset of "I need my software to be good or my clients will leave."

Google still does this. As you probably already know, users aren't clients. Users are products.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Except for people like me I never paid Google with money.

I gave them my date for them to organise and assist me with.

If they can't use my data to assist me, I'll stop giving it to them by turning off permissions and features I don't use.

Google really does need handling over your data to be useful. Especially as the EU gradually forces defaults to be for privacy. Google will need you to opt in more and more and that means they do need to give you good service.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

As you continue to use their services you are shown ads or use services other companies have paid to have linked to. Even when things seem "free" they are never free. Google Maps makes money off charging their API for businesses. They charge what they do because their data quality is high. Their data quality is high because they track usage as well as ask users to improve their data (like ask if a restaurant has table service). Every time you search for a business or call a business because a Google search that gets tracked and compared. Businesses can also pay to appear higher in advertised search rankings.

TL;DR: You are given free access to improve Google's data and they sell off that improved data to companies, or charge for higher visibility to their potential customers.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Pretty sure that's exactly what the other guy said... "Selling" your data can be worth it if you get good service in return, which is what Google used to provide, but now it barely works half the time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

Maybe I misunderstood the point of data, but I was making the point that they don't need to perform complex tracking or rely on non-anonymized data. Invading privacy isn't a very important part of their business model. People still freely feed them data either directly (captcha with OCR scan or Street View images; adding location reviews, photos, and details; YouTube likes and subscriptions) or indirectly (searches and links you click after; YouTube views; places you navigate to and what time; your location when you request navigation directions).

The tagging of data around specific people (privacy) which the EU is very concerned about, I feel, is grossly overemphasized. Just counters on what gets pinged and when on a transactional basis is very much good enough for Google's business model.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Ironically, a lot of what you liked on your trip to the UK never worked for me, living in the UK.

I can't remember exactly which services now, but when I was trying to use Google Now a few years back, lots of it was region locked to America and a small handful of other countries. By the time things like pulling events from my calendar came out, it had switched to Assistant and didn't work reliably.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Ideally I'd love all of this running locally on my phone (other than doing calls externally for weather etc)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I miss being able to set location based reminders... I have no idea why they removed that :(

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I completely forgot they did this until I was trying to set a reminder for when I got home and it kept telling me "I'm sorry I didn't understand" after every attempt. It's not like they couldn't implement that into Tasks.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

It's still s thing on Keep, in case it is helpful. Like you can have a note that has a reminder in certain location. That said I have never used it so not sure how good it is but the option is still there. And I don't know of there is anyway to use the assistant for setting them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

That completely stopped working for me a while ago, but Samsung's Reminders app was able to do it well.

I started using it instead, and the other day, uninstalled the Google Assistant app - the only time I was opening it was by accident, when I'd drift off to sleep holding my phone, and he rudely awoken by the noise it made.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago

Google throws a heap of apps and ideas at a wall to see what sticks. Then it periodically hoses down the wall. Never come to rely on a google app or service. It'll be hosed off eventually.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

The best summarization of the state of Google's Assistant related support and dedication can be seen in this thread.

We sell device you use.

We know we added a problem that even replacing the device won't fix.

We're aware of the issue and are working on a fix.

We just downsized the department.

Crickets

All while users generally suffer.