A place to share our love of all things with two wheels and pedals. This is an inclusive, non-judgemental community. All types of cyclists are accepted here; whether you're a commuter, a roadie, a MTB enthusiast, a fixie freak, a crusty xbiking hoarder, in the middle of an epic across-the-world bicycle tour, or any other type of cyclist!
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You don’t. Drivers are often hit by cars that ‘come out of nowhere’, motorcycles with loud engines, full lane use and signaling are ‘invisible’ when drivers only expect ‘big metal box’ in road - they’re just not going to see you, let alone look for you.
Build a hardened bicycle lane and I’ll use it with pleasure, otherwise I’ll ride with the pedestrians and catch looks when I pass by wide in the verge
LOL. That image may be a joke, but it seems to be true IRL.
I wonder if the study accounted for drivers simply being distracted, rather than the cyclist not being visible enough (how much more visible do you need to be, anyway?).
When I want to take the lane I stick out my arm and watch my mirror and don't move over unless
It can take a few cars before one acknowledges you
It would be so much better if there was a safe way for cyclists to cross intersections without being killed by turning traffic
The only real solution is to campaign for better infrastructure, such as:
What has worked the best for me is taking the lane. If the infrastructure isn't good, ride in the middle of the lane so cars are forced to treat you like a car. Don't use crosswalks or sidewalks, take the place cars are looking for other cars.
Yeah, it'll tick off some drivers, but at least they see me. I'll usually move right every so often if I'm blocking traffic and let the cars past (they'll usually go slowly), then go back to taking the lane. At the end of the day, my life is more important than etiquette. At least I'm my area, it's also legal because I just need to be within 3' (1m) of the edge of the road, which means the rightmost lane market, not the edge of the asphalt, so I can be pretty close to the middle of the lane while following the law, but I will break the law if it keeps my safe.
Yeah, it’ll tick off some drivers, but at least they see me. I’ll usually move right every so often if I’m blocking traffic and let the cars past (they’ll usually go slowly), then go back to taking the lane.
I'm tempted to get some kind of sign for the back of my bike saying something like "If you think I'm 'in your way,' demand a BIKE LANE," but I expect some road-rager would murder me for it.
I've taken the lane even with a bike lane because they frequently put parking on the other side of the bike lane, and I really don't want to get doored.
I take the lane on a roundabout with a bike lane on it, to avoid being killed by turning traffic driving through me
Why would they put a bike lane on a roundabout? That's just ridiculous.
The city is trying hard. The roundabout is on the main cycle route into the CBD from the South and there are a few hundred bikes through that intersection in that one direction every day.
At the time of day I ride (early morning, in the dark in winter) I have never seen a cyclist use the bike lane
Once you're in town it's kerb separated bike lanes and at grade bike and pedestrian road crossings, and one pedestrianised street and another "shared" street where cars are limited to 20km/h (try that speed mph 20-is-plenty complainers!)
Good to know the rest of the city is good. I personally avoid roundabouts on my bike because even fewer people expect to see a cyclist there, and most don't even have pedestrian crossings so cars don't even expect me at the entrances to the roundabout.
I love roundabouts, just not as a cyclist. They're fun to ride around, but I'm always scared I'll get run over since people are just looking for their exit.
If you have the chance to give feedback, recommend putting the cycle lanes combined with pedestrian crossings at the entrances, like this. That way the lanes are mostly protected, and bikes cross where cars expect them.
Canberra has so many roundabouts. I can't get out of my street without a roundabout - one at each end
The only real solution is to campaign for better infrastructure, such as:
protected bike lanes separate bike paths Dutch-style raised crossings
100% agree, but these tend to be very long-term solutions, and not every city even wants to entertain basic bike lanes, let alone separate or protected bike lanes. And we can't expect cyclists to wait years (or decades) for that infrastructure to appear.
What has worked the best for me is taking the lane. If the infrastructure isn’t good, ride in the middle of the lane so cars are forced to treat you like a car.
Even as an experienced cyclist, this is highly unnerving. I couldn't imagine a novice, elderly, or young cyclist having to take the lane and hope that cars see them. I get that this is often the only option for some areas, but it's also very far from ideal.
At the end of the day, my life is more important than etiquette. At least I’m my area, it’s also legal because I just need to be within 3’ (1m) of the edge of the roster, which means the rightmost lane market, not the edge of the asphalt, so I can be pretty close to the middle of the lane while following the law, but I will break the law if it keeps my safe.
It's funny, I was thinking that most of the time cyclists "break the law", it's quite literally so they don't die.
I don't advocate for regularly cycling on sidewalks (even though it's legal where I live), but there are certain roads that are so dangerous that using the sidewalk is the only safe way to cycle.
there are certain roads that are so dangerous that using the sidewalk is the only safe way to cycle
And plenty of roads where the sidewalks are more dangerous than the road (e.g. anything with driveways, parking lot entrances). In general, I recommend avoiding the sidewalk, but there are obviously exceptions (e.g. that stretch of road where cars go fast and there's a sidewalk, and few side streets/driveways).
Do what's safest, and don't worry about etiquette or laws. I'd rather have a ticket than be in the hospital (or dead).
And plenty of roads where the sidewalks are more dangerous than the road
Yup. It's often said that the sidewalk is the most dangerous place for a cyclist to be (for them and everyone else). I've been saying that for years in the Reddit e-scooter community after far too many people post their crash videos while riding on sidewalks.
The only time I'll use a sidewalk are in areas that you'll never see pedestrians in. Typically, these are industrial zones where big rigs have destroyed the road. Very low risk to be on the sidewalk here, but about as safe as you can be in a horribly dangerous area.
Genuinely don’t care about the law if it directly endangers me. Have ridden past police many times on the pedestrian pathway, without ever a ticket or warning. Widen the asphalt/eliminate on street parking/make lanes smaller and build non-automotive infrastructure, then I’ll happily leave the pedestrian pathway alone
I’ll take the risks of going over the handlebars from someone popping out of a driveway, farrr better than catching a parked car door opening into a painted cycle lane or run down by a drunk/texting/inattentive driver while on the main roadway if there is no cycle lane
I'd rather risk getting ticketed than risk death or being crippled for the rest of my life because some asshole couldn't be bothered to pay attention and the city doesn't give a shit about cyclists' lives.
Whether it's legal or not is less of an issue, since I don't think anyone should be riding on sidewalks on a regular basis.
It comes down to safety. I think most people will naturally choose a sidewalk when no other safe options are presented, regardless of whether it's legal or not. This should be a red flag to city planners that the cycling infrastructure is sorely lacking!
Indeed! Everyone that yearns for this infrastructure, engage the local Vision Zero community!
How do we, as cyclists, even deal with “driver blindness”?
Use a rear-view mirror that you check every 3-5 seconds and be prepared to jump in the ditch at a moment's notice. 🥹
As a commuter on both two wheels and four, one thing I have noticed in recent years is the A-post - the dividing structure between the front windscreen and the first window on the sides - is becoming longer and thicker (giggidy).
There's been times when I've eased out of junctions when it has been clear to the left, and on checking again a metre onwards, the A-post has been blocking the view of a full-sized car. The design is fucking ludicrous and only benefits the driver who looks straight ahead, there's almost a frontal blind-spot created in modern cars.
I like to think my experiences of cycling to and from work make me appreciate the need to be mindful of more vulnerable road users, but even still manufacturers don't make it easy. I'm all for putting shit drivers on blast, but manufacturers seems to be actively complicit in making driving a very selfish experience now.
The only way to end this problem is building safe infrastructure, that properly separates cars and bicycles.
Yes, and not just "separate" like a painted line, but a full separation from the road is most ideal.
Agreed, that was exactly what I meant when I wrote "properly", sorry if that was not clear enough.
I understood what you meant. But I don't think city planners, or the general public have any idea what's needed when we say "separated bike lanes".
In my city, we have a single road with a truly dedicated bike lane, which is "separated" by some physical buffer. But I can't even begin to tell you how many times cars will cross the PHYSICAL BUFFER to park in the lane, drop people off in the lane, or block the lane for deliveries...
I would rather it be totally separated (by distance) from the road. This would often come in the form of a multiuse path, which I completely understand is not feasible in all areas due to space constraints.
In an ideal world, I see no problem reclaiming space needed for multiuse paths by removing car lanes. 😁
I see no problem reclaiming space needed for multiuse paths by removing car lanes
Of course not. Fuck cars!
My favourite in town separation is the series:
My real favourite in town is the roads that keep traffic at cycle speed, or better yet gives more direct paths for pedestrians and cyclists and circuitous paths for cars
It really is about driving culture. It is very obvious that f.e. italians think 30cm distance is plenty. Very different from france or switzerland or everywhere really except croatia where i have ridden. Netherlands is a whole different beast since they really seperated the traffic. Dutch drivers in on holidays abroad are some of the worst offenders though in my experience, which i found surprising, always thought that they are maybe not used to share roads as much, or because they don't know how big their trailers / RV's are.
In germany it is now part of the traffic law since 2020 that you need to keep 1,50m distance in cities and 2,00m in rural areas. There is also the open bike sensor citizen science project which measures distances, so you can show actual data about problematic areas or general (non)compliance, which i think is really cool. Pretty sure the distance kept got bigger in the last years here due to the law and also i think it being in the news with open bike sensor etc helped.
Of course you still have some drivers keeping way too little distance.
I don't actually find it too discouraging, because as the last part of the abstract of the paper says:
"This suggests there is little riders can do, by altering their appearance, to prevent the very closest overtakes; it is suggested that infrastructural, educational or legal measures are more promising for preventing drivers from passing extremely close to bicyclists."
There's a long way to go in making the necessary infrastructure happen, but papers like this are useful in pushing forward on that front
Unfortunately, those are very long-term strategies that don't help the millions of cyclists at risk of close passes today.
And even if implemented, would it really make us safer? Except for completely separated bike lanes, I don't think we can ever trust drivers (and their large vehicles) to pay enough attention to not kill us.
I see your point and "things will be better eventually" absolutely isn't reassuring in the context of the risk that cyclists face daily. I used to live in a city that had the most dangerous roundabout for cyclists in my country, and the promise of future bike lanes doesn't help people who have already been hit by vehicles on that roundabout.
When I lived in that city, I was involved in local politics and one of the big things we were pushing for were the infrastructural changes that would make things significantly safer for everyone. Often when we'd make our case for why these things were necessary, quoting stats and cases where relevant, there'd be questions like "well were they using bike lights?" or "maybe they should've been wearing a hi Vis vest".
This led to the local university handing out high Vis gear during Freshers week, and anecdotally, cyclists were, on average, more visible. Didn't affect the stats in any measurable way though. Another thing that came of this was some additional funding was allocated to the police to allow them to be stationed to watch out for, and fine people cycling without lights at night. The issue with this was that the vast majority of cyclists already had lights - it was a city with so many cyclists that in my experience, the average carefulness and responsibility of cyclists was higher than anywhere I've lived. I'm not necessarily opposed to ticketing people who didn't have lights, but I was so frustrated by these measures which were effectively just the result of victim blaming. Fundamentally, an injustice is being done here, and in many cases, completely separated bike lanes is the goal.
I cross four roundabouts on my road route to work.
One is suburban and is fine, it has 50km/h traffic, and not much
One is on an 80km/h road where it crosses a 50km/h one that's okay, has no bike lanes, but you can occupy the lane and make it safe
The next is two 80km/h roads crossing, up hill I cross at the nearby pedestrian crossing; downhill I'm going as fast as the cars so they don't mind me occupying the lane
The last is the worst. It's in a 70 zone and I approach it at about 50, coasting (I love recumbents!) and all the traffic is in the same direction but splitting between straight ahead and first exit, and in that direction it's easy to keep your speed up in a car. We have a green painted bike lane across the roundabout going straight ahead (2nd exit), but we also have fast traffic turning across the painted lane for the first exit.
I don't use the bike lane on that roundabout. I would rather slow the straight ahead traffic than be in the path of turning traffic that's likely looking the wrong way
Even good drivers fuck up. One watched my bike too much and veered off the road into the bike lane. Luckily there wasn't anyone right there, but that was just luck there was no disaster
I replaced my bike from a fast carbon fibre high racer (a type of recumbent) to a recumbent mountain bike (also a high racer) so I can be more comfortable in the shared path that is well separated (by hundreds of metres in many places) from the road, but which is too worn and warped for the carbon bike's 22mm high pressure tyres
https://i.stack.imgur.com/x5LTs.jpg
But with abrasive bristles beside the reflector. https://www.empireabrasives.com/4-nylon-wire-strip-flap-brush-1-4-hex-shank/
OMG, the abrasive bristles are so perfect! 😄😄😄
It's not just a deterrent, also it creates evidence.
You need to be fast or other cyclists will have trouble passing you
I ride a weird bike - a recumbent. People see it very well because it's unexpected, people give it space because they don't understand it
I ride an escooter with a full motorbike helmet and a hiviz jacket, I may as well be invisible most of the time.
