this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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More than 200 Substack authors asked the platform to explain why it’s “platforming and monetizing Nazis,” and now they have an answer straight from co-founder Hamish McKenzie:

I just want to make it clear that we don’t like Nazis either—we wish no-one held those views. But some people do hold those and other extreme views. Given that, we don’t think that censorship (including through demonetizing publications) makes the problem go away—in fact, it makes it worse.

While McKenzie offers no evidence to back these ideas, this tracks with the company’s previous stance on taking a hands-off approach to moderation. In April, Substack CEO Chris Best appeared on the Decoder podcast and refused to answer moderation questions. “We’re not going to get into specific ‘would you or won’t you’ content moderation questions” over the issue of overt racism being published on the platform, Best said. McKenzie followed up later with a similar statement to the one today, saying “we don’t like or condone bigotry in any form.”

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[–] [email protected] 240 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I just want to make it clear that we don’t like Nazis either

Actions speak louder than words. Fuck Substack and fuck any platform that offers a safe haven for nazis.

[–] [email protected] 139 points 10 months ago

"I want you to know that I don't like nazis. But I am fine platforming them and profiting from them. Now here is some bullshit about silencing 'ideas.'"

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[–] [email protected] 176 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (34 children)

If there are 10 nazis at a table and you decide to sit among them, there are 11 nazis sitting at that table.

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[–] [email protected] 122 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Freedom of speech doesn't mean that you are obligated to host a platform so shitty people can use it to share shitty ideals. It simply means that you won't get arrested on a federal level.

Websites can do whatever they want, including deciding that they don't want to be a platform for hate speech. If people are seeking a place for this conversation genre to happen, and they want it enough, they can run their own website.

Imagine if you invited a friend of a friend over, and they were sharing nasty ideals at your Christmas party. And they brought their friends. Are you just going to sit there and let them turn your dinner into a political rally? No, you're going to kick them out. It's your dinner, like it is your website. If you don't kick them out, then at some level, you're aligning with them.

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[–] [email protected] 117 points 10 months ago (20 children)

Do not tolerate the intolerant.

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[–] [email protected] 99 points 10 months ago (36 children)

Yea... Meta took the same "free peaches" approach and the entire fucking globe is now dealing with various versions of white nationalism. So like, can we actually give censorship of hate a fucking try for once? I'm willing to go down that road.

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[–] [email protected] 91 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (12 children)

To be clear — what McKenzie is saying here is that Substack will continue to pay Nazis to write Nazi essays. Not just that they will host Nazi essays (at Substack's cost), but they will pay for them.

They are, in effect, hiring Nazis to compose Nazi essays.

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[–] [email protected] 86 points 10 months ago (4 children)

“we don’t like or condone bigotry in any form.” I mean they are litterally Condoning bigotry.

"His response similarly doesn’t engage other questions from the Substackers Against Nazis authors, like why these policies allow it to moderate spam and newsletters from sex workers but not Nazis."

Doesn't seem very consistent.

[–] [email protected] 51 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Substack: Nazis are cool, but you better not be selling sex related shit! We have standards!

[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago (1 children)

"We do not condone Nazi propaganda, but we are very concerned about sex work causing social degeneracy."

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 10 months ago (3 children)

So substack is a pro-nazi platform run by Nazi enablers, got it.

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[–] [email protected] 81 points 10 months ago (35 children)

This would be silly even if they didn’t moderate at all but they do. They don’t allow sex workers use their service. And we aren’t talking about “Nazis” as a code word for the far right. The complaint letter cited literal Nazis with swastika logos.

Plus, how grand are his delusions of grandeur if he thinks his fucking glorified email blast manager is the one true hope for free speech? Let the Nazis self-host an open source solution (like Ghost).

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 10 months ago (10 children)

Nazism doesn't deserve tolerance, any person who doesn't punch it in the face is equal or worse.

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[–] [email protected] 75 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So they are a Nazi platform. End of.

[–] [email protected] 57 points 10 months ago (7 children)

If you run a bar, and Nazis hang out in your bar, you run a Nazi bar

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[–] [email protected] 74 points 10 months ago (2 children)
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[–] [email protected] 71 points 10 months ago (8 children)

"Let's tolerate the people that say they want to genocide entire ethnic groups" Surely nothing bad is gonna happen /s

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[–] [email protected] 69 points 10 months ago (8 children)

So let me get this straight... They don't like Nazis, but Nazis not making money is worse than Nazis making money?

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Being a Nazi isn't a "view." It is a political movement guided by the principles of hate, violence, and genocide.

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 10 months ago (7 children)
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[–] [email protected] 66 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Tolerating Naziism and allowing it to use social tools to spread its hate is what makes it worse.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

We already knew that SS liked Nazis.

All joking aside, silencing Nazis and deplatforming them is LITERALLY fighting against them. How is allowing them to make money and market themselves on your platform doing anything to stem the tide of Nazism? Obviously they're playing culture war games and saying they're not.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (1 children)

McKenzie followed up later with a similar statement to the one today, saying “we don’t like or condone bigotry in any form.

Condone:

verb accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue

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[–] [email protected] 56 points 10 months ago (12 children)

"We don't like or condone bigotry in any form."

...But we are happy to financially support bigotry and directly profit from it.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Facebook just shrugs off the rampant white supremacist content on its platform with great success, you can literally put up a profile photo with an "It's OK to be white" frame, or "white power" supplied by Facebook. I guess Substack thinks that if it works for Facebook it should be fine for them.

Incidentally Reddit banned me for posting pictures of Nazis on r/beholdthemasterrace, a subreddit for mocking white supremacy, when some Nazis went and complained to Reddit admins I was doing it. Reddit also sides with Nazis, they're just quieter about it.

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[–] [email protected] 49 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

Okay fine, I'm never clicking on a substack link again.

And after say a grace period of about 6 months to move elsewhere, I'm going to assume anyone associating with the service is at best a nazi sympathiser

Go ahead, be a Nazi bar, I'm sure their money is worth it

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Is substack used in the EU? They might want to rethink their stance then...

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

What does Substack plan to do with the profits that it makes from hosting Nazi content?

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[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (13 children)

On one hand, Substack is in it's rights and as a journalistic organization, they are in the right.

The issue is: Once you serve a Nazi in your bar, you become a Nazi bar. This is no longer a marginalized viewpoint you can ignore. Its actively recruiting and frightening. Inaction is enabling. Substack is going to become shitty, and fast. They will lose high engagement users, first when the ones who protested pile out for another platform and then quickly when the quality dips.

Also, their cavalier attitude will change when Stripe steps in.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago

this is enablement

[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago (7 children)

So they have no rules, any content is acceptable?

Anything less is "censorship" after all

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No, it does not “make it worse”.

In fact, stamping out dissent and controlling people is incredibly effective. Ask any dictator.

Control is effective and necessary when it comes to people actively trying to damage society. No, I’m not supporting dictatorship or authoritarianism, just pointing out that control is effective.

Being a sect of destructive assholes doesn’t mean you should get a platform.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

“I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.”

― Elie Wiesel

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Mckenzie needs to read that Reddit story about the bartender who kicked out a guy with the Third Reich eagle ensign on his shirt despite him quietly minding his own business. I really don't want Substack to "suddenly become a Nazi bar." I'm just a reader, but if I ever start a newsletter I may reconsider my platform. I am on a basic free plan for all Substack channels I read. I've thought about upgrading my subscription to some, but now I will hesitate.

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