this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] [email protected] 107 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Cars fulfill a very self-indulgent narrative. 'I get to decide where and when I travel', makes people feel "free" snd "important" even when millions of them are silently coming to the same decisions-- like going downtown at 09:00 on weekdsys-- that allow huge efficiency plays.

Notice how many ads feature fantasies of open roads and trips to faraway attractions, not the real world of "I need to sit in rush hour traffic from 6:30 on to get to the Work Factory"

Maybe public transit needs to focus its message on the freedom from drudgery it offers-- you don't have to be staring at the driver in front of you, scanning the traffic reports

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly! This is why I love micromobility and quality public transit so much. With micromobility like electric scooters or bikes, I can zip past traffic in the protected cycle lanes in my city. With the frequent metro service in my city, I know I can show up to the metro station at basically any time and know it'll be a max 5-minute wait for the next train. And when I'm on the train, I can just chill and scroll on my phone or read a book instead of stressing about traffic. The freedom to think about something that isn't traffic.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately as it stands in some places the infrastructure is awful. Take England for example; catching a train to London takes about 20 minutes for me, however there are often 10-15 minute delays that you now have to start accounting for, you also have to sit in a cabin with someone blaring their music that isn't to your taste. Hopefully you're not in a cabin with a toilet, because it's going to stink of shit.

Now the return journey, fingers crossed it's not cancelled otherwise you have another 40 minute wait for the next train! Last train home is a real anxiety inducing experience, will you be getting that train home or has it been cancelled? This is unfortunately all too common here. Sadly because public transport is for profit rather than a necessary service we have someone trying to do the bare minimum to make that money, and then pay the bare minimum to their staff who don't give a shit. It all begins to unravel and people just have a better experience sat in that morning traffic which is a more consistent and pleasant experience to the public transport.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

I'd say it is more about ~~convince~~ convenience. You decide when you leave and you leave from your door. You don't risk being late to work because you missed the train by 1 minute (baring queues, but you get the point).

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This can also be achieved by high frequency transit.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Really depends where you live. In my town I also decide when I leave, and I don't risk being late because I missed the train by one minute. I'll just take the next one. More risk of being late because of car traffic.

The problem when people compare cars to public transport is that they compare the current state of public transport in their area. We need to compare what would happen if we were spending as much billions as we do on cars.

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[–] [email protected] 84 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I dunno what country you are from, but here in the US of A, the monopolies that own all the train infrastructure make sure to keep trains as public transportation as cost prohibitive as possible.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Big Auto has been destroying any idea of high speed rails for decades. Our trains are complete trash because of car lobbyists.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

Muskrat is one of the biggest ones to blame.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And they expand the roads and freeways to have rails literally no place to go

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Because as much as trains and buses are great for everyday commuter movement (and having amenities within walking distance is key as well), there's two issues:

  • Changing the infrastructure and zoning of an existing city is much easier said than done. Ripping up concrete, tearing down existing business and homes to increase densification, that's a huge undertaking.
  • Trains never replaced the horse drawn carriage. You can never fully eliminate the need for cars because sometimes you need to move something big like a couch. Even if there's less cars on the road, it'll never be 0, as this also includes things like ambulances, and fire trucks that can't rely on schedules.
[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Changing the infrastructure and zoning of an existing city is much easier said than done.

Fun how we had zero fucking problem doing it to every city in the country for cars. 🤷

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (14 children)

That’s what rentals are for. Yeah, there’s always going to be a need for low volume cargo transport and emergency response, but ultimately building cities so 90% of trips can be easily and comfortably accomplished via mass transit should be the goal. Nobody is suggesting transit can replace all cars.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The image in the post is of a yogi of some sort stating that electric cars are here to save the car industry first, and my impression of it is that it's suggesting that exploring the idea of electric cars is unwise.

And hell yeah, efficient transit and walkable cities are the goal. But while we're working on that goal, we should also focus on electrifying cars! Tackle the crisis in multiple ways. Because there's no way we're gonna stop using cars overnight, and if we can make cars more environmentally friendly while we taper off of them, that's a win.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Actually most cities had rail laid out and working commuter trains. The car manufacturers bought them up and purposely ran them into the ground to increase car sales. (Think Twitter) they were run like that.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I would just settle for sidewalks, where I live in the USA it's just streets with no sidewalks everywhere. I used to live one mile from where I worked and I could barely even bike there because of crazy car drivers and nowhere to go if someone wasn't paying attention. Rural America is going to be car dependent for a long, long time.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Cities in America too. I'm currently in Charlotte, NC and the amount of times that the sidewalk just ends is a little bit insane.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (7 children)

In Germany electric trains are standard for local public transportation.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago (33 children)

Trains only run on a specified track and there isn't one near me. A car isn't bound by a track and can go anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (6 children)

and there isn’t one near me.

That's exactly the problem that this community wants to fix.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (11 children)

I have an electric car because I refuse to pay any more money to fossil fuel companies but still need to drive. I use public transport where possible, but many trips just aren't viable.

It takes me 30 minutes to walk to the nearest shopping centre, but 2 hours to get there by public transport, or 5 minutes by car.

As an average citizen, I don't have the means to build or fund new railway lines. I am, however, lucky enough to be able to refuse to drive fossil fueled vehicles and still survive.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Electric cars don't solve a lot of the root problems of cars. They still require massive amounts of energy to move thousands of pounds of steel. They also still rely on sprawling roads and parking lots.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This isn't a binary. We need both robust public transportation and electric cars (with an electric grid supplied by renewable energy). Public transportation can't take you anywhere at anytime -- it's all a game of statistics and demand. If 12000 people want to go downtown at 7 pm, and 3 people want to go the opposite direction to get to work to start their night shift, you're going to see buses and trains headed downtown but not the opposite side of town.

Public transportation is best served for commutes and travelling to popular areas, and that's where the majority of emissions are coming from. Cars can supplement with everything else

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (13 children)

Because cars aren't stuck to tracks.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Trains aren’t 100% the answer, but cars should be the last answer. Still we should electrify cars.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would love to have trains and not need a car. Unfortunately that's still a decade away here in California.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I'm all in favour of trains. I only take the train to work, and it's so convenient I even take my kids to the city via train, to entertainment or shopping. However, even though I live inside the capital city in a Western European country, the train we take is powered by diesel. The government has been talking about electrifying the track for years, and the current estimate is that it will take another decade or more to get it done. There's a single electrified rail line in the entire country, and based on the electrification progress it will take several decades to electrify the rest (if ever). Based on this experience, I'd venture to say that electric cars are far easier to deploy than electrify train lines.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Running errands on public transport is an absolute nightmare. Imagine having appointments, hauling bags of groceries and maybe even having a child or pet on a leash, all while trying to catch busses and trains. Public transport is great to get a lot of people to a common place, but that's about it. Its not exactly cheap either. Where I live, a single one direction train ticket costs roughly as much as 2 liters (~½ Gallon) of gas. 2 liters can get me in and out of the downtown area about 3-5 times, depending on traffic. Or once with an hour of parking. If an electric vehicle would fall out of the sky into my lap and the only thing I had to care about is fuel (electricity) I'd definetly would save money and time compared to public transport. Public transport is absolutely necessary, but not the solution for everything.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I love good public transport. It's great to not have to worry about parking or having to drive. Good cities, like many in Europe and New York in the US, a car isn't really required.

But out in the countryside, a car is a must. Electric cars are massively better for the environment and way cheaper to run (like tenth the cost with a night rate).

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (12 children)

since wen this sub is full of carbrain? like bruh.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because North Americans were tricked by the oil and car companies in the 50s to think that car ownership was part of being human, and now we're addicted to sitting in traffic, breathing fumes, and killing pedestrians in the name of muh freedom.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Cars can pick me up 10 feet from my front door(my car). No train tracks within 5 miles of me. I would love if their were tracks closer.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

Because in our current state with everything built around cars, creating a train system to accommodate it all is nearly impossible. Trains work great in a downtown, or centralized area. They are very difficult to build to accommodate our 1x1 grid system that cars use. Or at least that's my perception of it. Even if the system could be built, it'd have to be manned, it'd have to travel to certain areas at certain times to account for jobs. And it becomes increasingly unwieldy the more requirements you add to it. I wish things had built up along a sustainable train systems instead of cars, but placing a train system in to replace the decentralized nature that cars introduce is a monumental and perhaps untenable task.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Not every journey is possible with public transport. People will still need to lug equipment about in the electric future.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

Because people want a means to travel independently, as in they are in control and not riding with strangers.

/s

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