this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2023
198 points (98.1% liked)

datahoarder

6786 readers
2 users here now

Who are we?

We are digital librarians. Among us are represented the various reasons to keep data -- legal requirements, competitive requirements, uncertainty of permanence of cloud services, distaste for transmitting your data externally (e.g. government or corporate espionage), cultural and familial archivists, internet collapse preppers, and people who do it themselves so they're sure it's done right. Everyone has their reasons for curating the data they have decided to keep (either forever or For A Damn Long Time). Along the way we have sought out like-minded individuals to exchange strategies, war stories, and cautionary tales of failures.

We are one. We are legion. And we're trying really hard not to forget.

-- 5-4-3-2-1-bang from this thread

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
198
Lost Doctor Who episodes found – but owner is reluctant to hand them to BBC (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Deebster to c/[email protected]
17 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://feddit.uk/post/4478496

Veteran film collector John Franklin believes the answer is for the BBC to announce an immediate general amnesty on missing film footage.

This would reassure British amateur collectors that their private archives will not be confiscated if they come forward and that they will be safe from prosecution for having stored stolen BBC property, something several fear.

“Some of these collectors are terrified,” said Franklin, who knows the location of the two missing Doctor Who episodes, along with several other newly discovered TV treasures, including an episode of the The Basil Brush Show, the second to be unearthed this autumn. “We now need to catalogue and save the significant television shows that are out there. If we are not careful they will eventually be dumped again in house clearances, because a lot of the owners of these important collections are now in their 80s and are very wary,” he added.

Discarded TV film was secretly salvaged from bins and skips by staff and contractors who worked at the BBC between 1967 and 1978, when the corporation had a policy of throwing out old reels. And Hartnell’s Doctor Who episodes were far from the only ones to go. Many popular shows were lost and other Doctor Who adventures starring Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee were either jettisoned or erased. A missing early episode of the long-running sitcom Sykes, starring Eric Sykes and Hattie Jacques, has also been rediscovered in private hands in the last few weeks.

...

The BBC said it was ready to talk to anyone with lost episodes. “We welcome members of the public contacting us regarding programmes they believe are lost archive recordings, and are happy to work with them to restore lost or missing programmes to the BBC archives,” it said.

Whether this will be enough to prompt nervous collectors to come forward is doubtful. While collectors are in no real danger, the infamous arrest of comedian Bob Monkhouse in 1978 has not been forgotten, Franklin suspects: “Monkhouse was a private collector and was accused of pirating videos. He even had some of his archive seized. Sadly people still believe they could have their films confiscated.”

all 18 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Deebster 83 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Sounds like these 80 year olds need some friendly data hoarders to help them to digitise their collections. (Or for the BBC to promise to return the film, undamaged, once they've digitised them.)

[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or for the BBC to promise to return the film, undamaged, once they’ve digitised them.

"Yeah, so..., we lost them it seems. But not to worry, here's a £10 voucher to McDonald's."

[–] Deebster 7 points 1 year ago

Why would the BBC want old film, once they had the footage? They've already thrown them away once! It's only of value to collectors at this point, and the Beeb can't sell it if they're claiming it's lost.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Convincing them should be easy enough as long as it's someone trustworthy

The media is going to be degrading every day that it's not digitized

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately as soon as it’s posted everyone involved would be subjected to investigation, would come back to them.

Probably why no one has done it yet.

[–] Deebster 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But they weren't stolen, they were legally thrown away, and legally (?) scavenged. Surely picking something out of a bin or landfill isn't a crime...

Edit: I looked it up and according to this page, there's legal precedent that says it's ok:

If someone honestly thinks that it’s okay to take something, even if it belongs to someone else, they might not be guilty. Theft has to include an element of dishonesty.

If the person who threw away the goods intended to throw them away and wanted to claim no further ownership, this would be classed as abandonment. If goods are abandoned, they legally have no owner and anyone who takes them would not be guilty of theft.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

An investigation would happen regardless if it was legal or not, that’s what the investigation would be to determine……

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If they want it so much why don’t they pay him? Sounds like if it weren’t for him (and the others he seems to allude to) we wouldn’t have this opportunity.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Big. I wanna see them! I don't even really watch the really old stuff, but lost stuff sounds interesting!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Sounds like it's up to the BBC to adopt a policy that will leave people safe to come forward.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

I WANNA SEE IT I WANNA SEE IT I WANNA SEE IT!!!!!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

But the Observer has learned that the owners of the rare, rediscovered footage are not prepared to hand it over to the BBC, even as the clock ticks down to the 60th anniversary of the show’s launch this month.

This would reassure British amateur collectors that their private archives will not be confiscated if they come forward and that they will be safe from prosecution for having stored stolen BBC property, something several fear.

Discarded TV film was secretly salvaged from bins and skips by staff and contractors who worked at the BBC between 1967 and 1978, when the corporation had a policy of throwing out old reels.

Franklin’s plea was supported by Mark Stuckey, a film and projector restorer who appears as an electronics expert on the BBC’s The Repair Shop.

“BBC Studios, the corporation’s separate, commercial arm, have already spent money animating some lost Hartnell episodes, so surely they could spend a little more on restoring the originals and perhaps pay something to these elderly collectors, a few of whom are now unwell, or caring for others.”

After all, as Phil Collinson, executive producer of the new colourised episode has attested, the Hartnell adventures are “a masterpiece of 1960s drama” and “literally the foundation stone of all that Doctor Who has become.”

The original article contains 924 words, the summary contains 214 words. Saved 77%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

But, I thought an amnesty was already in place?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Can the BBC even really give amnesty here? Strictly speaking the prosecution of crimes is up to the courts.