this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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I'm considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don't plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD

I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I've also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using

I've already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it's worth it before sinking money into it

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Check out Framework if you haven't already! https://frame.work/linux

They're designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they're super modular. You can also save some money if you're not afraid to put it together yourself.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How's the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol' days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I'm pretty sure it's usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.

Edit: Thousand, not hundred

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I got their 12th gen diy last year and it was really easy to assemble. I was pleasantly surprised at how well thought out it was.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I'm sure you'll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.

BUT, oh boy. Don't get me started...

Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they're just fucking with us.

I've got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you're ~ key is down there? It's fucking stupid.

Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.

AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.

Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.

So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you! It's a bloody miracle!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oh :( As annoying as that is I can't bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody's mentioned that so far :)

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.

What I don't like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I've had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.

Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (16 children)

I'm relatively happy with my System76, but based on your needs you could get a lot of value from a $500 used ThinkPad on Ebay.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I get a lot of value from my 150.00 ThinkPad T430s but then all I do is web browsing and occasionally compiling software on it so not exactly intensive things. It's a basic machine. A ThinkPad T series closer to 500.00 would be very functional.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you're into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn't anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better

Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.

Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they're the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.

Links:

Framework

Starlabs

System 76

Laptop with Linux

Tuxedo

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You got all the good infos already, but I'll stress:

  1. Get Linux preinstalled from a reputable vendor. Linux works on most devices really; but when buying new, you don't want the hassle to even think about drivers.
  2. If you cannot buy from a Linux-friendly vendor, buy an older model that's VERY popular with Linux users (like the stereotypical thinkpad). Again, most devices will work, but you don't want the hassle.
  3. Intel everything just works out-of-the-box with Open Source drivers and is good enough for work. I'm not aware of the current state of AMD, nvidia drivers.
  4. Choose a popular generic purpose distro. They are all good (enough) and should work out of the box. Popular for end users are Ubuntu (although hated by a vocal group) and related ones such Debian or PopOS; maybe Mint. I'd put Fedora/RedHat and Suse on the same level (but I wouldn't know since I settled on Debian/Ubuntu long ago). Then, Arch adresses a different clientele who wants to tinker with there system; not my choice if you want a computer that just works, but great community. Anything else probably has too small of a user group unless it's popular with your friends or line of work
  5. Treat it like a Mac. It's different.
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have been purposefully avoiding Intel for the last six years. AMD CPUs are great if you are not stressed on ultra low power consumption. More threads, less money. AMD GPU drivers are open source and well integrated into the kernel, unlike NVidia's proprietary driver, which I will never go back to.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don't think there's ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use

The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I’d say Framework, but I don’t think they have stuff under $1000 unfortunately.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I'm thinking of trying out nixos on it.

My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps...

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[–] beaker 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I'm on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

If you're looking for a cheap but solid laptop, you can get some pretty good deals on Dell Refurbished. Click on Laptops at the top, then look for the 50% off codes at the top of the page.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've installed Linux on two Windows laptops:

  • A 2019 Lenovo Yoga with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU. Kubuntu worked without any issue, aside from the Nvidia drivers being finicky. It also has a touchscreen with pen support, which works really well.
  • A 2022 Asus Vivobook with an AMD CPU. Tried Fedora for this one and had tons of driver issues at first, but they eventually got patched.

So, I'd say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you're ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

If I'd buy a new laptop these days I'd go with a framework. Other than that, buying a refurbished ThinkPad is always a great option and they generally run really good with Linux. As for support I wouldn't be too afraid, almost all hardware is supported these days as long as it's not something really obscure. The main thing worth checking is probably the WiFi card, I heard there are some that are a pain to set up, but I never ran into that. That being said most manufacturers won't officially support Linux and if they do they'll only support fedora or Ubuntu (speaking about big manufacturers, ofc there's system76 and stuff), but as I said I don't think I've encountered a laptop that straight up wasn't able to run Linux. Also if possible avoid Nvidia GPUs, they work, but can be a pain with drivers breaking on the regular

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm fairly new to Linux, but I quickly learned that AMD based stuff is better for Linux.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Oh, really? I knew AMD was more popular among Linux users, but I never really made the connection that it was better, lol. Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

nvidia drivers on linux is troublesome. They don’t support their own proprietary drivers well and don’t share with the devs working on open source ones. As expected, you end up with two different feature incomplete drivers and it’s a huge hassle.

iirc you should be fine with an intel or and cpu and it’s just the gpu you need to be careful with, but my experience is with an amd cpu and nvidia gpu so I may be wrong

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Oooooh yeah. I currently have an AMD video card and it's heaven. No drivers problems, KDE Wayland works perfectly, it's just absolutely awesome.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If your on a budget, an older Thinkpad is a good choice. I picked up a X220 with a charger and spare battery off of Craiglist a year ago for $60.

Ended up going with Coreboot with a SeaBIOS payload and Debian OS.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have enough money to buy a more modern Lenovo laptop, but I'm definitely considering getting one renewed simply because of how cheap it is. I'd prefer newer age specs tho. Thank you!

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I bought a new thinkpad t14 for $900. I have arch and windows 10 dual booted and it's doing great

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Everyone's made good suggestions, but I wanted to throw out there that I just recently learned Kubuntu actually has been making its own line of custom-made laptops for a while, called Focus. There's a few different models, and IIRC one or two configurations are below $1000. You'll definitely save a buck by going with Windows-first options, but if you want to support Linux that'd be one way of doing it.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Im happy with my ROG Zephyrus G14, which I only chose because of decent linux compatibility and a sale at Best Buy.

I would say when judging the price of a laptop, whether it is Windows focused or Linux focused, make your decision based off of mainly hardware specs (and that hardwares linux compatibility). For example (assuming same price), if a Windows laptop has a great AMD CPU and GPU, I would take that over a Linux laptop with an equivalent CPU but an NVIDIA GPU.

My best advice is to read posts / watch videos of people using / installing / reviewing Linux on said hardware before you buy it. For instance, Asus ROG laptops (like I have) require a program called asusctl to control certain aspects of the machine that are usually controlled by Asus's proprietary software. I would not have known this if not for researching beforehand.

EDIT: I agree with another comment, used Thinkpads are awesome and usually old enough that there will be next to no compatibility issues with Linux. Also, they're tanks!

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you're thinking of getting one, i personally would recommend getting one from https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/. Extremely good quality and a really clean distro with Tuxedo OS 2 although you are able to install on it whatever you want.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Maybe a slightly controversial stance, but consider straight Debian. With flatpak support in both Plasma and Gnome being stellar, you can have up-to-date apps with a rock solid base that runs on almost anything.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I know you mentioned System76, but I thought an anecdote of the gazelle 15 I bought during covid would help.

It's the 2021 model with a 10th-gen i5, 16GB DDR4 RAM, a cheap 256 nvme SSD, and a GTX 1660ti for $1300. Very good laptop that I've used the hell out of since then. Has an excellent 120hz IPS panel (1080p) that's just buttery smooth, and using pop_os on it has been very stable, even with all their firmware updates including the switch to coreboot for their UEFI. Plays all the games I needed to when I was away from home, and the keyboard is one of the best I've typed on, on a laptop.

Now my only issue with it, is the shell, which was not entirely metal as I was led to believe. It's got some pretty cheap plastic for the bottom side that feels like it will crack if dropped even from a short height. I THINK this has been changed in newer models though, as they were using rebranded Clevo laptops for their chassis. Still, I hate that it's half nice brushed aluminum looking metal and half brittle plastic housing a VERY (at the time) expensive parts. It's the only flaw

Does this change my mind on buying System76? No, because I've seen their newer stuff and it's made leaps and bounds from my laptop in just a couple of years, and I absolutely plan on buying a beefier Oryx Pro or something on the future. They're excellent Linux machines

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I want a system76 pangolin but I'm broke.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

GODDDD u have no idea how much I feel u there

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I have a Darter from System 76 with Pop!_OS as my personal laptop that I code on and I absolutely love it. It runs extremely smoothly and I've not had any crashes with it.

I also have a Lemur from them with Ubuntu for work and it's kinda meh. Is difficult to say what causes the issues I have. It may just be the corporate tools but I end up having hard locks that require a reboot.

If you go with them I strongly suggest Pop! The distro is built for their hardware and works really well.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've been pleased with using refurbished Thinkpads off amazon. They're pretty well supported except for maybe like the fingerprint reader which I never cared about anyway.

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