this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023
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[–] [email protected] 173 points 1 year ago (5 children)

By pricing their models competitively, right?

...right?

[–] [email protected] 107 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Exactly.

Europeans like Chinese electric vehicles because they are affordable.

Meanwhile European manufacturers are probably pushing behind the scene to restrict the Asian competitors on the market so they can decide what price is right.

In the next months in France they will reduce the subsidies for Electric Vehicle with a poor CO2 bill like imported Chinese cars.

So even less people will get to afford EVs.

I don't think this is just about cheap Chinese labor importing cheap Chinese cars to Europe. It's also about Europe ignoring the importance of battery tech and manufacturing for decades and suddenly acting all surprised that we are not competitive.

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[–] [email protected] 55 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Lol, a car industry that hasn't innovated in years is suddenly threatened by innovation. Still, fuck cars. We should make them nigh obsolete with better public transport.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love cars. Fixing them is a pain in the ass but a fun challenge. Driving them can be fun, too. But, I think I'd love some kickass, efficient, abundant, affordable public transportation even more.

God. We could have had it by now. It'd be so rad. But no.

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[–] [email protected] 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They have an electric suv under $20k usd

Sure, it’s probably gonna last like a mid-90’s Kia, but for the price it’s pretty nice.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (7 children)

At the rate of industrial investment into this tech coupled with some places punishing gas cars, a cheap car that spans the gap from now until affoedable and better EVs is the perfect prescription, not to mention we havent stopepd having some form or financial crises since covid.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I think it's debatable. Is it really good if all the energy that went into making the vehicle goes to waste because it only lasts 50k miles? At that point you're basically building disposable vehicles.

I think the sweet spot for this period is in hybrids that allow people to run on electricity around town but also have the ICE as a fallback for long/extended trips. The main hesitancy with EVs is range anxiety (ignoring high prices) and hybrids solve that issue while still retaining a lot of the benefits of an EV.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The problem with that is that phevs are surprising expensive/heavy/complicated. It's why Chevy discontinued the volt over the bolt. And why chevy had to cut a lot of costs on the volt to get it down to a semi-acceptable price (the volt didn't even have power seats except on the Premier, and only on the drivers side).

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Honestly, I prefer not to have power seats. It's faster to adjust manual seats in my experience and there's both fewer things to break and less weight.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

If I was in the market for a new car, I’d strongly consider them because of the cost even knowing the quality may be low. It’s still an EV and would hold its value for now. It’s a good alternative to the slim-pickings we have here in the states

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago

The political class trying to protect the interests of the billionaire class. You grow up under this capitalist system and all you hear is "competition is driving innovation" but the moment true competition comes knocking on your door, you lock yourself into a room.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I’m not entirely sure why they want to fight low prices? The article doesn’t say why EU and others shouldn’t be able to afford e-vehicles

[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They undercut the sales of European vehicles which cost more.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Oh no, capitalism hurts itself in its confusion

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Capitalism breeds innovation and drivers prices down!"

Capitalism: no not like that

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Unsustainable Chinese state subsidy is not capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unsustainable state subsidies are not capitalism. Remember it’s not just the Chinese that do this kind of stuff.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Of course they are, subsidies are one of capital's favourite methods to siphon money out of the populace. Or were you under the impression that greedy people like playing fair on fair markets?

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

US government shoving millions up the asses of the their industries: capitalism

China shoving millions into their industries: communism

Yours faithfully, the brainwashed USAian

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Every country does some level of industry subsidy. So it's kind of baked into capitalism now. And, technically, has been since the beginning.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

It's not that simple. Caricatures are easy, but the fact remains that the Chinese auto makers are heavily subsidized and it's that government support that allows them (partially at least) to undercut the European auto makers.

That being said, the European auto makers really deserve to be hurt for their arrogance. And that's coming from someone whose income is directly related to how well they do.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

low prices

They're fighting Chinese market manipulation that is specifically designed to make the world dependent on them and lowers wages across the world by creating massive market imbalances. Every nation with two brain cells should ban the import of all Chinese vehicles and eventually all Chinese industry entirely.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Chinese electric car makers get absolutely massive state subsidies. There are companies like Nio that have never made a single dollar of profit. Nio has been losing money on every single car they sell, to the point where they've been losing almost a billion dollars in the last quarter alone.

However, China doesn't care. The state keeps financing these companies, because if they can undermine European and American auto makers to the point where they're simply unable to compete and maybe even completely collapse, then Chinese car makers will be the only ones left in the market, and they'll be able to charge any price they want.

And realistically, which American or European car maker will be able to compete with a multitude of Chinese competitors that all can afford to lose billions and billions every year without batting an eye?

So that's why they want to fight "low prices."

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What is Europe if not Europeans?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Government trying to steer a herd of impulsive and selfish citizens into doing what makes sense for the collective (or what they believe makes sense (or what they're trying to convince us they believe makes sense))

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

deeper nested brackets Or what the car lobby tells them they should try to convince they believe makes sense

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not a single head of any of the car makers who participated in the rigging of diesel car emissions testing went to jail.

Diesel car emssions are thought to kill around 10000 people per year in Europe (not all of which the excess emissions resulting from the rigging, but part of it).

Not even human lives are more important than the wishes of the car lobby for european politicians.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Is it racist to say I'd never buy a Chinese car just on principle?

[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If it's because you hate Asians, then yes. If it's because you believe China makes bad products or because of their unethical practices, then no.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

It could be all three since racists tend to think China makes bad products and have unethical practices because they are Chinese due to conflating race and culture.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It could be, you'd have to define the principle.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Only if it had something to do with race. If it's because you don't think their manufacturing standards are high enough to feel safe that wouldn't be racist per se.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

State literally calls itself communist. (Operates more like a fascist state than a communist one)

Conducts ever more of its industry through the state and strictly controls the banks and loans.

Exercises huge subsidies across the entire economy which is visible through their massive and growing imbalance between their internal consumption and export.

"You only say it's not capitalist because they aren't white"

No I say they aren't capitalist because they aren't capitalist.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

China is closer to neo-mercantilism due to the level if direct state involvement in private business.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a nationalist economic policy, neo-mercantilism integrates well with the fascist economic model, particularly in this age when the masses are so accustomed to foreign goods that they might find the explicit notion of autarky alienating.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

And why should I, a European consumer, care if China has a communist economy or not?

Same shit to me. You live your entire life under capitalism being lied to about how "competition drives innovation" and suddenly when competition knocks on your door, you lock yourself in.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago
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