The no campaign is split between: It does too much and it doesn't do enough. I'll vote yes.
this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2023
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Why not support the voice?
The 'Progressive No' movement has pretty valid reasons to be against it, though as a non-Indigenous Australian I find it very difficult to consider voting no myself. The fact that I actually get to vote on this is honestly ridiculous, particularly when my vote is worth twice that of someone who it is supposed to be benefiting.
I mean, the fact that Dutton is supporting No would be enough reason for me to vote Yes
Edit: I am not saying this is the only reason. I very much believe that the first nations peoples should have a Voice
Voting because someone else does or doesn't vote this way or that is sport not politics. I would hope that most people take it far more seriously.
You write that like they don't both exist . And anyway, recognising the actions and policies of a political figure as being a polar opposite to your belief system is still a valid call.
spite is a powerful motivator.
My guess is the reverse is true also in that Dutton supporters will vote no because he is.
Yeah they keep saying there is a sound progressive case for no, but even Thorpe had a mouthful of nothing when asked to elaborate.
Saying you have reasons that you then won't state isn't the same as an actual argument
The simple truth is this is how modern politics works, you take the wins you can and keep scraping and clawing away for more, it's why the desperately avaricious are drawn to it.
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A few of my good friends are indigenous and their whole families are against it. I haven't really heard a good reason why this "voice" will make any difference - can anyone enlighten me? It just doesn't seem like it will have any actual power assigned with it. The elected person will say "You need to stop mining our land" and the government will go "lol no" and keep mining.
Based on how many indigenous groups our country was split up in, having a single voice representing them all doesn't seem like it will work either.
I posted this down below, but my personal take on this is that the Voice is meant as a symbol. A symbol embedded right into our constitution. One that cannot be hidden away behind govt bureaucracy. One that isn't beholden to the party machinery like so many aboriginal MPs are. The most important thing is that it gets aboriginal people a foot in the door. A lasting change that can be used as a stepping stone to Truth and Treaty. Something that will let them constantly be noticed by parliament instead of just having a bone thrown to them whenever a pollie needs to score political points.
We had some cultural training at work the other day - a whole day session. It was really great and I think a few people came away with changed minds and hearts over a few things that they just never understood before.
The real shock of the day came when the person leading it announced that she would vote no. She explained that they are currently actively fighting a native title battle with one of the neighboring groups, and that this was extremely typical. That a single 'voice to parliament' is akin to the original sin of having herded thousands of different language groups into singular camps, far from home.
I hadn't really thought of it like that. The facilitator is obviously out there fighting for representation but a singular voice to parliament sort of ignores the entire first nations culture, and grievances. It's a very white solution to a very black issue.
The Voice design principles say that local groups will be asked to provide input.
These principles commit the government to a Voice that is chosen based on the wishes of local communities, is not appointed by government, reflects gender balance and youth perspectives, and all members must be Indigenous.
This article is really worth reading, it addresses a lot of the fears and misinformation out there.
Thanks for the article, will give it a read. I'm still undecided as yeh most indigenous people I've seen posting about it on my social media are against it, but surely giving them a protected seat at the table is better than not having one.
It could be argued that they were given that protected seat at the table in 1962 when all Indigenous Australians were given the right to vote. That gives them the same level of voice and representation as that of every Australian citizen.
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Either the Voice is successfully implemented and ends up being an utterly useless and expensive waste of time with no practical benefit, or it is not successfully implemented and it ends up being an utterly useless and expensive waste of time with no practical benefit.
I can't wait for this nonsense to be over.
I think she's right, it's a fair and practical move. Not sure if I'd say that all No campaigns for the Uluru Statement use Trump-style politics like she says, but the Fair Australia one is certainly weak and uses the "pointing out racism creates division" thing that anti-CRT Americans like to use so much.
The coalitions entire thing has been sewing doubt by lying about what the voice is and how it was started. I’m disappointed because their efforts most likely will result in nothing happening. And for what? They gain nothing from knocking the voice back.
That's the part I don't understand, supporting this could have been a watershed moment for the coalition, and right when they desperately need to appeal to a mainstream audience.
I agree! I also really can’t understand that either. It seemed obvious. What happened to the “good long look at ourselves” they promised after the federal election? Maybe they’re done looking and saw only perfection haha.
They gain a maintenance of status quo and a liiitle bit more fearmongering
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To be bluntly honest, if Lidia Thorpe is against it, it’s probably a good move.
i mean, she raises valid concerns, but on balance they don't outweigh the net gain. I'm reticent to just dismiss her concerns as they kind of highlight why this is so vital, the cultural cynicism and distrust in Australian politics takes on a far more visceral and personal bent for Indigenous Australians after all(rightly so).
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There is nothing stopping her making a Voice right now, and showing what it can do. I'm really afriad Linda Burney is in an echo chamber and doesn't see the massive flaws.
Not sure what you mean by that. How would she go about making a Voice on her own?
By engaging with the existing representative body that has already been established - The National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA).
It employs 1,023 full time staff and manages a budget of $285M each year specifically for the purpose to "lead and influence change across government to ensure Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples have a say in the decisions that affect them."
https://www.niaa.gov.au/who-we-are/the-agency
True, didn't know that was a thing. I assume people who are leading the Voice movement don't find it to be sufficient enough -- I wonder why? I suppose because it has no constitutional recognition? But why not use the NIAA as a basis? Would be interesting to learn the reasoning there.
Through parliament without a constitutional change. Or by making representation to the government on behalf of the aboriginal and Torres strait Islander peoples independently, as a unified body.
I disagree. I think there are too many competing bodies to have one organically represent all. I think having it in the constitution adds gravitas and says that we as a society and country are listening.
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