Fun fact:
In Germany, a turning vehicle has to yield to pedestrians. Pretty much no one knows about this, as you'd expect.
this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
90 points (90.9% liked)
Fuck Cars
9884 readers
5 users here now
This community exists as a sister community/copycat community to the r/fuckcars subreddit.
This community exists for the following reasons:
- to raise awareness around the dangers, inefficiencies and injustice that can come from car dependence.
- to allow a place to discuss and promote more healthy transport methods and ways of living.
You can find the Matrix chat room for this community here.
Rules
-
Be nice to each other. Being aggressive or inflammatory towards other users will get you banned. Name calling or obvious trolling falls under that. Hate cars, hate the system, but not people. While some drivers definitely deserve some hate, most of them didn't choose car-centric life out of free will.
-
No bigotry or hate. Racism, transphobia, misogyny, ableism, homophobia, chauvinism, fat-shaming, body-shaming, stigmatization of people experiencing homeless or substance users, etc. are not tolerated. Don't use slurs. You can laugh at someone's fragile masculinity without associating it with their body. The correlation between car-culture and body weight is not an excuse for fat-shaming.
-
Stay on-topic. Submissions should be on-topic to the externalities of car culture in urban development and communities globally. Posting about alternatives to cars and car culture is fine. Don't post literal car fucking.
-
No traffic violence. Do not post depictions of traffic violence. NSFW or NSFL posts are not allowed. Gawking at crashes is not allowed. Be respectful to people who are a victim of traffic violence or otherwise traumatized by it. News articles about crashes and statistics about traffic violence are allowed. Glorifying traffic violence will get you banned.
-
No reposts. Before sharing, check if your post isn't a repost. Reposts that add something new are fine. Reposts that are sharing content from somewhere else are fine too.
-
No misinformation. Masks and vaccines save lives during a pandemic, climate change is real and anthropogenic - and denial of these and other established facts will get you banned. False or highly speculative titles will get your post deleted.
-
No harassment. Posts that (may) cause harassment, dogpiling or brigading, intentionally or not, will be removed. Please do not post screenshots containing uncensored usernames. Actual harassment, dogpiling or brigading is a bannable offence.
Please report posts and comments that violate our rules.
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
In the UK also. Obviously pedestrians can't rely on drivers respecting this right, or even checking whether they need to. But, if you've made eye contact, don't give way to them. Hold up a hand to indicate they need to stop and cross to make them wait like they should.
Oh, I've definitely gotten some weird looks. The audacity of a pedestrian knowing the rules, how can I
Oh, another good one is that paving or cobble always means walking speed. Though in that case, car drivers actually respect it most of the time, it's rather the cyclists here who don't care for some reason.
Like Neo
Preface: My primary method of transport is by bike if I can help it. I hate cars and everything they represent.
When I get behind the wheel of a car, it's like something in my brain flips and I notice my behaviour changes. I become more annoyed, aggravated, and impatient. I don't know what it is, but something about being surrounded by a steel cage that can explode up to 100km/h at a moment's notice makes you feel invincible.
A large part of the problem comes from the design of the road. To accommodate as many cars as possible the road is built to be gigantic, and when you're driving a car this makes you feel like you're safe to maneuver even at the expense of everybody else.
I think if we started designing cities properly, focusing first on pedestrians then bikes then buses etc, we'd end up with an urban environment where motorists do not feel as comfortable throwing their ego around and so will quiet down and behave.
Where I live now, in the Nordics, I get really agitated when I see people (in cars) standing in the middle of crossings and blocking T-junctions to smaller roads. Unlike in the Netherlands, and probably most countries, you can tell that there is way less time spent with an actual instructor (not claiming Dutch drivers are perfect, people in general are not flawless, let a lone in a high speed box on rollers). Another thing that annoys me is the amount of people on their phones while driving, it is insane. I didn't observe it like this in the Netherlands, but that I might just have missed this. Mobile phones must be the most dangerous addiction if we can't even put them away when doing potentially dangerous activities.
I completely recognise the experiences you have while driving. My primary transport is public transport. I love it as I can chill and let my mind just relax a bit, but we have access to a car, and, indeed, when using it (when I snoozed a few too many times), everything is upsetting (the issues in the first paragraph are in general bothering me though) and their is no chill time when driving to work. I like driving on a holiday, cause you get to see new things and get to drive scenic routes, but as a means of everyday transport it is the worst.
I can give the people here some slack. The streets are terrible, even in the urban space. And it does indeed help a lot to have guidance and good structural rules on how to use the roads (like roundabouts).
A co-worker had the hypothesis that it (being more prone to anger/aggression) is because your car is like an extension of your house, in a way it's a bit like your moving home, so you feel more vulnerable and it makes you much more nervous about everything outside of it.
This explanation makes sense for me, but I never liked driving so who knows.
Do people in cars really all constantly get mad they don't have absolute right of way at all times???
Yes. US here and under perfect conditions usually go for a daily 5 mile walk, on which I cross an intersection by the interstate. As such, I always wait for my walk signal and visually verify that I'm good before crossing. I still get cussed out and yelled at a few times a month because it's all my fault they have to wait 20 extra seconds.
We have alot of roads without sidewalks and probably 30-40% of drivers will swerve outwards toward you instead of inwards around you, to assert dominance I guess? Maybe it's just a murder boner that they could kill you right there, IDK. (I live in the "Bible Belt," which is more so gun country, so I tend to think it's that)
All car centric countries see cars as the beginning and end of "freedom," so anything that holds them up for 5 seconds or keeps them from going 80, is inherently anti-freedom. You triggered a pedestrian light? You might as well have murdered a bald eagle in cold blood, commie. (I know the metaphor doesn't work for Aussies, sorry, I assume you get the point lol)
Or a real brick of you don't mind the weight.
Or a shard/pouch of porcelain. Light as can be and beyond effective.
Rubber bricks are a defensive deterrent. Porcelain shards are an aggressive reminder that the law requires 1m from cyclists and my hands are not 1m from my body.
The pedestrian should still look. Not doing so is a great way to get pasted.
I find it weird that a bus can just pull out on someone but whatever, as long as it doesn't cause an accident.
Right of way doesn't matter if you are dead.
I think you should get a different instructor though. If he is mad about how right of way and the speed limit works he probably will teach you bad habits.
And let him know why you're finding a new driving instructor. You're paying him to teach you to drive safely and well, not to work yourself up into a fury that other people have the same right to public space as you do.
We also had him tell me the busses shouldn't just pull out when they have indicated for 5 seconds and should still give way
Doesn't your driving instructor know that buses weigh over 10 tons and don't have crumple zones, being designed to smash the fuck out of other cars in order to protect its occupants? And thus, to abide by the law of the jungle, cars must give way to buses?
Also, driving instructors have a material interest in maintaining car dependency. Who will come to them to learn how to drive, once no one has to drive a car?
I agree with pretty much everything you said, except for one minor thing. Whether you are a pedestrian, a cyclist, a driver, etc., you still must look and observe the traffic when you have right of way. Even though it's a green light for you, it doesn't automatically make it right for you not to give shit about anything and recklessly cross the road while staring at your phone. There might be an idiot driver running a red light, an ambulance you can't hear because you're listening to music, etc. I always observe the situation even if I have right of way, regardless if I am walking, cycling, or driving. It would be suicidal to do otherwise.
I try to live by the rule of I would rather be alive than dead. Being "right" is no consolation when you're in a hospital bed dying.
The same goes for cars and especially bikers. You may be right, but being right doesn't stop the giant SUV next to you from flattening you.
I'm Australian too, get a better/different instructor. You are driving a one tonne+ lethal weapon, essentially. Thinking this somehow gives you right to act like a cunt shouldn't be normalised. I'd tell him whilst I was ceasing my patronage of his services too. Cos I sure as shit didn't go through all you did when I used an instructor to get my p's.
He watched a pedestrian cross the road on a green pedestrian light, and complained about the pedestrian not looking
On the one hand, the pedestrian would be safer if they made sure it is safe before crossing. As a pedestrian and a cyclist I'm constantly looking around.
On the other hand, the only reason there is danger in the first place is because of motor vehicles driving fast around pedestrians.
We don't blame women who get assaulted for "not being careful", we blame the people who have assaulted them. The burden of safety should be placed first and foremost on the people who put others in danger.
Thoughts?
Do people in cars really all constantly get mad they don't have absolute right of way at all times???
So is it like a front-back half or a left-right?
He watched a pedestrian cross the road on a green pedestrian light, and complained about the pedestrian not looking…
He is not wrong. Green light doesn't make you invincible, people die like that. You must make sure it's safe to cross regardless of the light.