Ask Lemmy

What climb? Its still down 8.61% since he took office. Crazy to celebrate losing almost 9%.

By contrast Biden's second to last year was UP 24.23%. His last year was up yet another 23.31%.

To put dollars on this:

• If under Biden you'd put $100,000 into the S&P500 on Jan 2023 on Dec 31 2023 you'd have $124,230.
• If still under Biden you left your $124,230 in the S&P500 on Dec 31 2024 you'd have $153,188.01.
• Under trump if you'd put $100,000 into the S&P500 on Jan 2025 by today Apr 13th 2023 you'd have $91,390

I see no cause for celebration here.

What Trump is doing now will almost certainly outlast his presidency. One man, just one, has completely betrayed all of the trading relationships this country built over the course of a century, and even better, he did it unconstitutionally and Congress went along with it for their own enrichment, both Democrat and Republican.

Supply lines will be recalibrated. Our foreign partners will make new relationships with more dependable trading partners. (ie, China.) Over the course of the next decade or two, the utter stupidity of what Trump has done will play out to full effect. A few hundred Americans who shoved their heads up Trump's ass will get richer, but long-term, this is going to hurt most Americans.

If you're not diversifying your investments geographically you're no longer diversified at all.

The tariffs alone would be enough to cause a recession. It's not just that they're large (even 10% is large by modern standards) it's mostly that they're so chaotic. I've read that most businesses are avoiding hiring, avoiding any expenditures they can, and just waiting to see what happens. Seeing what happens means keeping cash on hand, which means a drop in GDP. The numbers might have been juiced a bit by people making big orders and trying to get them done before the tariffs come into full effect, but once that's done the pain is going to be much more visible.

In addition to the tariffs, there's the firing of federal workers. There are about 3 million in the US, and even if only a fraction have been fired so far, I would bet the rest are cutting back on unnecessary expenses and building up a cash reserve in case they get canned. This will ripple through the economy too.

And then there's the ICE stuff. People with green cards getting deported for exercising their first amendment rights, scientists being refused entry for a post they made on social media in their home countries, Canadian, German and British people being thrown in an ICE detention facility because of a minor paperwork mix-up. This is going to make tourists and business visitors much less willing to take a chance and visit the US, but this won't hit until later. Big tourist season is the summer, and so the lack of business won't show up yet. And some conferences were too close to cancel, but conferences for later in the year might be moved or cancelled.

And there's the invasion threats against Canada and Greenland, and the tariff wars against Canada and Mexico, and the refusal to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia. The biggest visitors to the US were Canadians, Mexicans and Europeans, and all of them are going to be avoiding the country now. And, not just avoiding the country. People are trying to avoid buying US goods and services.

In addition, there are treasuries. Many are held by Japan and China. Even just acting purely rationally, they see the chaos in the US and know the US might not be able to pay its bills, or it might choose not to pay them. The risk has gone up. If they aren't being purely rational and self-interested, they also know that they can hurt the US by dumping treasuries, so they're doing that.

And then there are the scientists leaving the US, or choosing not to come. And there are potential international students who see how risky it is for anybody who isn't white, male and christian. This sort of thing might take decades, but it's going to hurt the US the most. So many of the world's most talented people have come to the US and started businesses, but that is definitely going to slow down now.

Even if Trump were impeached and removed, and all his changes were undone with apologies, there has been some permanent damage done to the US by the MAGA majority. But, since it is a majority, since the MAGAs control the supreme court, the senate, the house and the presidency, there's going to be a lot more damage done before there's even a hint of a stabilization, let alone a recovery.

I think any rational investor is going to get their money out of the US, and the slight recovery the S&P 500 has seen in the last week is going to be dwarfed by the crash over the next few years.

I completely agree with you. The real shit show hasn't even started. The waves from the tsunami will take a while to hit.

I’m more concerned with the bond sell-off, that’s a very bad sign.

Some of the greatest daily gains in the stock market are during overall crashes.

Increased volatility is generally a bad sign for an economy's health.

I have a very hard time believing that the rest of the world will trust the US for a very long time, if ever, so I can't imagine our financial situation is going to improve for anyone except maybe the ultra wealthy (as usual). I haven't even looked at my retirement because it's not like there's much I can do besides stress about it.

Climbing? Wait the market opening react to the new semiconductor tariff bomb released 10 hours ago

S&P 500 is still up 5% over the last 12 months. Up 95% over the last 5 years. Any action on a shorter timeline than that is emotionally driven and should be largely ignored. Unless you're day trading of course. You're not, right?

That said, ya. We're probably heading into a rough time.

We're looking at negative GDP growth according to folks smarter than I am. 2 quarters of that and it's probably a recession.

Additionally it looks like foreign investors are leaving the US Treasury market kicking up yields and foreign governments are getting uneasy about purchasing US made weapons or relying on US security guarantees which, again, reduces GDP both directly and indirectly.

2028 can't come fast enough.

i mean he postponed it for 80/90 days or something so i guess this exact thing is going to repeat itself, because to me that looks like it would be the most profitable for trump

I think Trump will dump and pump repeatedly until he's stopped. Him and his billionaire bum chums will be absolutely raking it in.

It's not the tip of the shitberg, it's the edge of the shittacane, Randy.

I’m constantly amazed by people who don’t remember his first term.

Are you people on dope?!

Wait for some stupidity to reverse it again. Markets like predictability. This president is anything but.

The 90 day pause on tariffs is doing all the heavy lifting right now. We're going back into crisis mode in a few months.

Meanwhile, the stock market isn't the only indicator of economic health. Mass layoffs are still happening, prices aren't falling, inflation is still at risk to blow up again, consumer spending is down, and all the major banks are predicting a recession with better than coin flip odds.

We're absolutely not out of the woods yet.

The stock market is a mood ring for rich people.

Shit winds are a comin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xer32BmkORk

The thing about the stock market, no one freaking knows. The market has taken horrible dives before and has recovered. I also don’t believe the USA is the only country that should be worried if something does go down. The fact that some experts are saying things could be different may be worrying, but ultimately no one knows. All we can do is try our best to prepare for the worst. I wouldn’t be surprised if the protests continue to grow over the summer months in the USA.

Almost certain that Trumspki will do something stupid soon and then more stupid shit after that. The S&P will be look like a wild roller coaster.