this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2025
184 points (97.4% liked)

Cybersecurity

6982 readers
87 users here now

c/cybersecurity is a community centered on the cybersecurity and information security profession. You can come here to discuss news, post something interesting, or just chat with others.

THE RULES

Instance Rules

Community Rules

If you ask someone to hack your "friends" socials you're just going to get banned so don't do that.

Learn about hacking

Hack the Box

Try Hack Me

Pico Capture the flag

Other security-related communities [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]

Notable mention to [email protected]

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 26 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 month ago (3 children)

So i think 29 undocumented commands are far too many for a mistake..

[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Maybe, maybe not. Keep in mind that opcodes are the lowest-level part of the programming stack. They're literally just integers transmitted on the system bus. So if you've got, for example, 35 operations that you're actually trying to implement, you need 2^n^ ≥ 35 or n = 6 signal lines in your bus to transmit it. But since 2^6^ = 64, that means it's possible to put another 29 values on that 6-bit bus, with completely undefined behavior unless you go out of your way to handle them in the instruction decoder (increasing the size and therefore cost of your silicon, which is very undesirable in an embedded chip that sells for less than $1).

It is not at all implausible for one of those undefined instructions to just happen to do something that an attacker would find useful, by sheer coincidence.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Couldn't they just designate them as no-op codes?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

Yes, but to do that they have to be decoded and handled. That's basically what the commenter above was saying.

The original 6502 had many undocumented opcodes for this reason, and developers stated exploiting them for various reasons. The CMOS 65C02 redefined them to no-op. This has been going on a long time.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Probably why Android and apps are constantly asking me to turn on Bluetooth when I dont want or need it.

Not that this chip is in my phone, but it begins to seem like a pattern.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Maybe bouncer is something for you

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Looks like bouncer is no longer available.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samruston.permission

I do have Graphene which can do something similar. or maybe its an Android 15 feature?

Per app, there is a toggle to revoke an app's permission after an unspecified(?) period of time.

"Manage app if unused" a screenshot of an Android 15 device, showing the toggle labeled "Manage app if unused"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You lucky nexus owner. I wish GrapheneOS could be flashed on more smartphones. Yeah so that definitely reads like the feature that bouncer provides and if that's anchored at the system level the Graphene solution is guaranteed to be better too. Either way, it offers a lot of good functions that you can't simply make available on another Android via root.

Edit: I also forgot that Bouncer needs root to be fully functional.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

i gather that's why they're referring to the discovery as a 'backdoor'

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago (3 children)

This is really bad as most cheap IOT devices using this chip will not receive an update all.

Would like to see a smartphone app testing this out via bluetooth so we could do some damage control at least and take them offline.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

The 'S' in IOT stands for Secure

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Am I misunderstanding the article? It seemed to imply remote intrusion required either Bluetooth proximity, or physical USB access.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago

Correct, but as bluetooth is possible over a certain range, "drive by attacks" might be possible.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

The "attack" is from the host side, any remote attack is theoretical and would depend on exploiting the software on the host first to then gain access to the BT chip.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago
  1. Have IOT device
  2. It's not secure

How could this have happened???

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago

Tarlogic developed a new C-based USB Bluetooth driver that is hardware-independent and cross-platform, allowing direct access to the hardware without relying on OS-specific APIs.

Armed with this new tool, which enables raw access to Bluetooth traffic, Targolic discovered hidden vendor-specific commands (Opcode 0x3F) in the ESP32 Bluetooth firmware that allow low-level control over Bluetooth functions.

Badass.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago

Well that's not good.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I am conflicted on the one hand its a great thing we know about the exploit. The problem is, now everyone knows about it, seems like they've documented exactly how to do it for anyone who didn't already know how...

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago

That’s how it goes with all security vulnerabilities. IMHO sunlight is the best disinfectant for stuff like this. But yeah, it can cause some chaos.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

Better to have it out in the open then being used by sneaky nefarious types without anyone else knowing imo

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

In comparison to the 20 documented ones

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

What devices use this chip? Has it been enumerated anywhere?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

A lot of devices are based around the ESP8266 / ESP32 Here is a site with a very likely VERY incomplete list

https://templates.blakadder.com/esp32.html

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In addition to what others have said, ESP32 is often used by hobbyists, like a more powerful Arduino. These devices are extremely versatile and cheap. I have several of these in my home automation and this is very bad news :(

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

There's a billion, gonna be a long list.. I'd do some research on your devices and see if any of them use the esp32

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

I'm still looking into this but, "backdoor" appears to be incorrect and sensationalist. A team used proprietary software to uncover undocumented opcodes related to the Host Controller Interface (HCI). This could provide a path for arbitrary code execution, if one already has control of the Host... In which case they can arbitrarily execute whatever code they want.