this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2023
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Simple Living

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[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not that radical, we lived with less than this for tens of thousands of years before the industrial revolution.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This sounds nice for someone in a developed country who has all they need, and is only satisfying their wants. But for most of the world, economic development is a necessity and a lifesaver. Child mortality is reduced, life expectancy and education level increased, child labor decreased, as a country's economy grows. This is not a fringe right-wing idea. This is the very real effect of economic growth in developing countries, i.e. most of the world.

Degrowthers often seem to forget that applying their ideas will literally kill millions in developing countries, by preventing the economic developments that would have saved them.

FWIW, I am not a fan of unbridled capitalism either but think that it is important to consider science in important matters like this and not just go with gut feeling. That applies to both fascism and degrowth.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think a more fair take is that we need growth in underdeveloped places and degrowth in highly developed places. It's less about changing the total economic output and more about changing how that output is distributed.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Degrowth addresses that, contrary to your opinion. Degrowth in the global north provides the space for the global south to properly develop, something that has been systematically denied to them in many places by western powers through unequal exchange and neocolonialism.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

It seems like the choice is to die from the environmental issues or die from poor health care? There is no way anyone survives with the current state of things.

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[–] [email protected] 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The article is, in my opinion, purposely mischaracterizing the degrowth movement. I would say degrowth is more a natural reaction to the excesses of capitalism than movement about addressing climate change.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (15 children)

How about we do two things

Like how about we work less and we immediately and totally nationalize energy and agriculture haha just a thought haha (fireflies are going extinct haha)

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Way ahead of you, energy has already been nationalized here for a long time.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This will go the same way the "Green New Deal" did. It will scare the ruling class, the ruling class will send its media minions to demonize it, and nothing will change. doomer

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

no actually, you forgot the final step of "loudly and blindly double down"

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

You mean like destroying new light bulbs and rolling coal to trigger the wokes? libs-owned

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Protip: if you want your movement to gain any political traction, don't call it the degrowth movement

[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

What would you call it? Its kinda like the "defund police" thing. If they called it "reallocate police resources" opposition to the movement would just use the stronger "defund police" language as a cudgel to smear it. It's best to own it and educate

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Pro tip: any one telling you the problem with your movement is the optics, doesn't actually care about the objectives of thst movement

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Defund Wall St.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

why? it's exactly what it is.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Because the average person is too dumb

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

In order to slow the economy down and not wreak havoc, he said, we have to reconfigure our ideas about the entire economic system.

This is how degrowthers envision the process: After a reduction in material and energy consumption, which will constrict the economy, there should also be a redistribution of existing wealth, and a transition from a materialistic society to one in which the values are based on simpler lifestyles and unpaid work and activities.

Sounds good to me. It is a fair point that the basic operation of our society depends on continual growth, but redistribution seems like it would be an effective way of mitigating those problems degrowth might cause. We have more than enough resources to keep everyone alive, we just have to use them.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'd rather just do the full communism now path, where once every man, woman and child has all their needs and many of their wants met, there isn't a desire to chase the next fashion craze, or buy the next iphone or "keep up with the jones'" as it were because the Jones' have the same stuff you do, but maybe they spend their ample leisure time exercising, you spend your time gardening.

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Degrowth is such a fucking stupid idea. What we need is socialism. The demonic oligarchs that run the world are never going to prioritize reducing climate change. They've made that clear over the last century. There's too much profit to be made.

Worker owned means of production is the only solution. Only then can we direct the productive forces toward solving the most immediate problems that humanity faces. We've created so much productivity, but we need to guide it in the direction of sustainability instead of the profit motive.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're conflating two very different things. You can have an equitable system of worker owned coops that still has a growth mindset and destroys the ecosystem. You don't magically become sustainable when socialism becomes a thing. Growth itself when we're bound by the resources of a single planet a problem, period.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

"Turn on, tune in, drop out" 2.0

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Yes, we'll save ourselves by resetting the clock and never undoing the conditions that led to where we are

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

From the narrowly focused aspect of clothing, what can we do? Repair. Repair your clothes. Don’t throw away a ripped shirt, don’t replace it with a flimsy new shirt made by underpaid workers. Sew it. Patch it. Check your library for books about mending, go to YouTube and seek out basic repair videos. A packet of needles, a thimble, a spool of black thread, and a spool of white thread will take care of the majority of repairs. What you can’t do yourself can be handled by your neighborhood laundry or dry cleaner.

Practice radical repairing. Mend your way to a better world.

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