this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2024
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Those non-violent protests shook them so bad they wanted to charge non-violent Quaker protestors with terrorism.

(page 3) 39 comments
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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 week ago (3 children)

"largest worldwide non-violent protests in history"? I remember living through that time and don't remember that. Do you have a source? I myself was opposed the second Iraq war because Saddam had agreed to let in any inspectors the west wanted but we went "too late, we're coming in anyway" and I knew it was a scam invasion.

We were also just a couple of years into Afghanistan and it made no sense to be starting a second war on a second front when there was no immanent danger. Again, it made to sense.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests

Specific news articles about that day:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040904214302/http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/content_pages/record.asp?recordid=54365

From Guinness World Records:

On February 15, 2003, anti-war rallies took place across the globe – the largest occurring in Rome, Italy, where a crowd of 3 million gathered to protest against the USA’s threat to invade Iraq. Police figures report that millions more demonstrated in nearly 600 cities worldwide: on the same day, 1.3 million rallied in Barcelona, Spain, 1 million participated in a peace march through the streets of London, UK, and 500,00 people in Melbourne and Sydney, Australia, joined the biggest marches since the Vietnam War peace protests.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100326221254/http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=6067

The French political scientist Dominique Reynié has estimated that, between 3 January and 12 April 2003, some 36 million people took part in nearly 3,000 protests around the world against the Iraq war.

(It's worth noting here that I have been unable to find Dominique Reynié's paper that estimates this. I have searched and searched for a PDF with no luck. Lots of references to this work, but can't seem to find the actual document.)

https://web.archive.org/web/20190921125652/http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2765215.stm

Between six and 10 million people are thought to have marched in up to 60 countries over the weekend - the largest demonstrations of their kind since the Vietnam War.

A key aspect of what made it so big was because it was happening worldwide, simultaneously, in multiple cities all over the world.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

I was a bit skeptical as well, but there's at least one seemingly reputable academic researcher who says as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests (first citation).
So even if it wasn't, one could easily be forgiven for the mistake.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Goes to show how effective non-violent protest is.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 week ago

Just want to plug the movie and book How to Blow Up a Pipeline. Also the book Rattling the Cages.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I called for a massive peaceful protest that, occasionally, takes a shot.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago

There's two episodes in the podcast Cool People who did Cool Things that talks about basically that in regards to the violent wing of the nonviolent civil rights movement. You need both.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

A massive peaceful march from home to home of owner-class individuals. With a little occasional shots, as a treat?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Heavily armed and peaceful

Ftfy

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago

Yes.
Otherwise the unarmed get shot by the police.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

We want public healthcare. This act of violins highlights the anger we feel. It doesn't bring us closer to a solution. But imagine the roles swapped. We continuously live in fear of getting sick and then going bankrupt and homeless because of it. But what about from the other side...imagine a wolf in a house eating his sheep dinner. Imagine that asshole dancing around and humping several wolfority mates every night having the time of it's miserable life....and suddenly that wolf peaks at the window and has a sudden realization... Sudden because he suddenly opened the window. It realizes that there's nothing but sheep outside, all looking at him thru the window. Goes up to the roof top and observes himself surrounded by million upon millions of sheep all looking directly at him. The wolf sees one fellow wolf nearby as the sheep trample him. The wolf listens to his friend's bones crackling into mush. So just close the blinds and have another sheep from the fridge? Or maybe address the impending problem?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (10 children)

Protests mean nothing if it doesn't change how people vote.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

What's funny is the majority of the country supported the war, at the time. Less than a quarter of polled citizens were against the war. (That's me! I was there!)

When polled now, the majority of the country claims they were against it at the time.

Echoes of the Civil Rights era, where at its peak, it was deeply unpopular, but the Boomers spent the last 50 years re-writing their own history to pretend they were always on the right side of history... only for Trump to make them feel safe in being racist again.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Who are you supposed to vote for when both parties drift right indefinitely?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I see it differently; despite campaigning to attract cowboys Kamalla still wanted to cancel student debt, tax the rich, and legalize weed.

The old Democrats are dieing of old age, the young ones want Green New Deal.

If you elect 60 democrats you might not get single payer because only one of them has to object, but if you elect 60 Republicans you will get pure privatized healthcare and millions of people will die stupid unnecesary deaths because of it.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I mean personally I do vote every election I can, but people did change how they voted after protests were ignored. The pro-Palestinian protesters and the uncommitted movement during this 2024 election had a basic demand they wanted met, that was ignored by the Harris campaign and some number of them didn't vote because of it. And yet a lot of people blamed the protesters for Harris's loss (of Michigan at least), even though that is literally changing your vote because a protest didn't get her to change her position.

And that's also skipping over however many people didn't show up because of other positions she changed, like healthcare, fracking, the border, etc. And I do get it, I know Trump will be so much worse, and like I said I did vote, straight Democrat down ballot like I always do. But if the point of a protest is meant to show that a group of people is unhappy and you're losing their support, having that group turn around and vote for you anyway means that you can just ignore protests.

And again, I know I'll probably need to keep saying this, I voted for Harris. But the fact that the lesson a lot of the DNC is seemingly taking from this is that they should go more centrist just boggles my mind, because the point of people not showing up to vote for her after they protested and were ignored is literally that going more centrist and ignoring your base will lose democrats elections.

It's no surprise though, the DNC receives a ton of corporate donations so why would they seriously support policy that hurts those donors income. Like Josh Shapiro condemning the killer and those who supported them, and thanking the police who caught him in PA isn't surprising when he received $10,000 dollars from UHG in 2023 (the second most of any candidate). This is what people mean when they say voting is pointless, even if you somehow voted in a senate of 100% democrats, a house of 100% democrats, and Bernie Sanders as the president, they wouldn't support a proposal for something like single payer healthcare because most of the other democrats in the house and senate get money to not support major reforms like that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

You didn't like blood so you helped elect the river? I at least hope most people at those protests weren't as stupid as you imply. The whole point was to get the institutions being protested to divest from Israel.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Honestly, at this point I'm not convinced that Trump will be significantly worse for Palestine than Harris would have been. Neither one is going to stop sending weapons, and the stuff Trump supports are so extreme that Israel wouldn't want to do them anyway, like nuking Gaza. Either way in 4 years I can't see the US being the reason anything changes there.

I'm also talking about specifically the uncommitted movement and protests at the DNC, which were meant to get Biden and then Harris to support an arms embargo. The consequence promised by those protests was losing voters, so if that didn't happen it would mean that the Democrats could see these as empty threats and safely ignore them.

There are only so many times you can say "vote for me because the other candidate is so much worse" before people get tired of voting against their interests just to prevent someone else who is also against their interests just more so. Either way you're voting for something you don't support, and eventually people will give up. Blaming voters for a candidate losing and not the candidate for abandoning voters doesn't make sense. It's not the voters job to represent a candidate, it's supposed to be the candidates job to represent their voters.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago

Yeah thats true, real change is going to come from the house and senate, not the president.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Peaceful protest is a spook

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

Peaceful protests are the opening argument.

We have a second amendment specifically to give the citizens teeth. The idea isn't to overthrow the military, it's to make enrollee potential threat.

The more people those in power piss off, the more danger they'll be in. The way they've been treating us, they should all be terrified to step outside.

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