"Ummm, just testing democracy. Well done everyone!"
this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2024
119 points (99.2% liked)
News
23444 readers
2755 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I'm trying to wrap my head around this, partly because I haven't been following Korean politics as of late. From Reuters on an earlier article :
SEOUL, Dec 3 (Reuters) - South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol declared martial law on Tuesday for the first time in the country since 1980. Below is a Reuters translation of the military decree: "In order to protect liberal democracy from the threat of overthrowing the regime of the Republic of Korea by anti-state forces active within the Republic of Korea and to protect the safety of the people, the following is hereby declared throughout the Republic of Korea as of 23:00 on December 3, 2024
Maybe it's too early to know, but does anyone have the faintest idea what is meant by "anti-state forces"? Is this just a ham-fisted power grab that failed, or is there any legitimacy to that claim? I'm missing ALL the context here.
All these far right regimes and actions .... they are all just slowly massaging and conditioning all of us everywhere for what's to come in the next few years.
They push us to the right, we push back but not enough and they've gained an inch .... but they keeping doing it again and again until they've gained a mile.
And the Fascists keep seeing other authoritarian regimes get away with something, and think to themselves, "well if they can get away with that... What can I get away with?"
I generally hate to make everything about us, but I can't imagine this having happened had Israel and the US not have successfully succombed to their fascist tendancies in current events.
Democratic ideals are in direct conflict with ideologies of "because I can" might makes right.
I doubt this is over, but I hope it isn't overlooked that this right wing authoritarian coup was only extinguished because the parliament members successfully climbed over fences to vote it down in the face of military force threats.
It really exemplifies the fragility of democracy and civil rights, and the need for active defense of them.
I'm kind of blown away by this too. The sentiment here on Lemmy following the US presidential election was palpable by people in other countries, and how this might have ripple effects in Europe and beyond. I suppose it's easy to underestimate the influence of US military, trade, and soft power abroad from within these borders. Still, the idea that politicians and leaders elsewhere would just freaking copy our homework, especially when we're doing our best to fail the class, is mind-boggling.
It really exemplifies the fragility of democracy and civil rights, and the need for active defense of them.
Jefferson was quoted as recommending a re-write of the constitution every 19 years. So the fragility of all this stuff, and the need to keep with the times, was well-known by the founders at the very start. By that clock, we are decades overdue for some amendments. Then there's the really famous quote:
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson
For the record, I appreciate how absolutely metal this quote is. At the same time, I greatly dislike it because it suggests that violence is the right choice right out of the gate. I prefer to take this advice as, eventually, violence is the only option remaining.
Honestly, I think part of the rot that is happening is precisely because the modern nation state model seems to be causing mass misery, resignation, and wealth concentration at a cartoonish scale.
I think Jefferson had a point in that admittedly metal quote that many miss in appreciating it.
In our pursuit of perpetual stability, mostly for the sake of large scale long distance commerce which has been elevated to the point that even incentivizing families and children has become a distant secondary priority, we've lost something that is absolutely essential for civilization to progress rather than regress and stagnate:
The renewal of societies that can only come from painful but necessary collapse of the old systems that no longer serve the interests of those that support them.
People can't afford small homes NOW anymore. If this system remains stable does that mean, as wealth continues to concentrate, that most will be unable to afford so much as a sleep crate from Bezos's grandchild after a 14 hour workday?
I argue that, painful for the generation(s) that bear it as it is, sometimes the score needs to be reset, or the. Misery will be perpetual and multigenerational.
Still not understanding what happened today. Was president Yoon drunk?
He's handcuffed by an opposition led legislature and he and his wife are under investigation over influence pedaling and general corruption.
Say, that sounds familiar 🤔
... he would move to lift a martial law declaration ...
Dude can just go on TV and declare it, how come he can't go on TV and undeclare it? What's taking so long?
Possibly there's autonomous actions required when martial law is declared that take some time to undo? Like taking a tent out of the box, it takes way longer to get it back in, if it ever does.
I'm only guessing, I honestly have no idea what it entails.
They explained that it took a majority of his cabinet to undeclared and they were all currently sleeping. (They had gone to bed before the declaration and had to be woken up to undo it.)
Doesn't matter what he says, it was already rescinded by the legislature.
Kind of does, since the defense ministry said they were going to enforce martial law until the president lifted it, after parliament voted it down.
From a legal perspective, it doesn't matter. The Defense Minister reports to the president so it is still just the executive branch. Their constitution states that martial law is over when rescinded by the legislature.
Guns always beat laws.
The legal perspective ceases to matter much when the enforcers of the law don't enforce it. Laws become mere words.
Chill bro it was just a social experiment!
Don't you think he looks tired?
I can bring you down with six words, just six. Great reference.
Never really understood that. Like, yeah, I'd expect a politician to look tired, if they don't are they even doing anything? Shit is a stressful job in a 21st century.
Politicians almost universally need to project a happy warrior demeanor.
Voters want candidates that at minimum pretend to be enthusiastic about their platform.
Biden was removed partly because, in addition to being confused, he looks like a very old and tired man.
Lack of energy is seen, often correctly, as weakness.
Winston Churchill isn't lauded for saying "We'll try to stop them at the beaches... sigh"
Does he have a choice? Congress unanimously voted to reject martial law.
Not sure, but if he was the one to declare it then I’d imagine he’s the only one (unless he died after declaring it) to undo it. But I might be wrong idk