this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024
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On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion. 

The legal basis that X asserts in the filing is not terribly interesting. But what is interesting is that X has decided to involve itself at all, and it highlights that you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media, and it also highlights the fact that Elon Musk’s X is primarily a political project he is using to boost, or stifle, specific viewpoints and help his friends. In the filing, X’s lawyers essentially say—like many other software companies, and, increasingly, device manufacturers as well—that the company’s terms of service grant X’s users a “license” to use the platform but that, ultimately, X owns all accounts on the social network and can do anything that it wants with them.

“Few bankruptcy courts have addressed the issue of ownership of social media accounts, and those courts that have were focused on whether an individual or the individual’s employer owned an account used for business purposes—not whether the social media company had a superior right of ownership over either the individual or the corporation,” Musk’s lawyers write. 

The case Musk’s lawyers are referencing here is Vital Pharm’s bankruptcy case, in which a supplement company filed for bankruptcy and the court decided that the Twitter and Instagram accounts @BangEnergyCEO, which were primarily used by its CEO Jack Owoc to promote the brand, were owned by the company, not Owoc. The court determined that the accounts were therefore part of the bankruptcy and could not be kept by Owoc.

Except in exceedingly rare circumstances like the Vital Pharm case, the transfer of social media accounts in bankruptcy from one company to another has been routine. When VICE was sold out of bankruptcy, its new owners, Fortress Investment Group, got all of VICE’s social media accounts and YouTube pages. X, Google, Meta, etc did not object to this transfer because this sort of thing happens constantly and is not controversial. (It should be noted that social media companies regularly do try to prevent the sale of social media accounts on the black market. But they do not usually attempt to block the sale of them as part of the sale of companies or in bankruptcy.)

But in this InfoWars case, X has decided to inject itself into the bankruptcy proceedings. Jones has signaled that Musk has done this in order to help him, and his tweet about it has gone incredibly viral. On a stream of his show after the filing, Jones called this “a major breaking Monday evening news alert that deals with the First Amendment and the people's fight to reclaim our country from the clutches of the globalists.”

"Elon Musk X Corp entered the case with a lawsuit within it to defend the right of X to not have private handles of people like Alex Jones stripped away. It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery, there are many issues. Today they filed a major brief in the case,” Jones said. “Elon Musk’s X comes to Alex Jones’ defense against democrat attempts to steal Jones’ X identity.”

Musk famously unbanned Jones, then appeared on the same Twitter Spaces broadcast with him. Musk has also tweeted occasionally that he believes The Onion is not funny. Jones, meanwhile, has been ranting and raving about some sort of conspiracy that he believes led a judge via the Deep State to sell InfoWars to The Onion at auction. 

X calls itself “the sole owner” of X accounts, and states that it “does not consent” to the sale of the InfoWars accounts, as doing so would “undermine X Corp.’s rightful ownership of the property it licenses to Free Speech Systems [InfoWars], Jones, or any other account holder on the X platform.” Again, X accounts are transferred in bankruptcy all the time with no drama and with no objection from X.

“Looming over the framework [in the Vital Pharm case] was the undeniable reality that social media companies, like X Corp., are the only parties that have truly exclusive control over users’ accounts,” the lawyers write. “X CORP. OWNS THE X ACCOUNTS.”

That a corporate social media company says it owns the social media accounts on its service is probably not surprising. Meta, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn, and ByteDance have run up astronomical valuations by more or getting people to fill their platforms with content for free, and have created and destroyed countless businesses, business models, and industries with their constantly-shifting algorithms and monetization strategies. But to see this fact outlined in such stark terms in a court document makes clear that, for human beings to seize any sort of control over their online lives, we must move toward decentralized, portable forms of social media and must move back toward creating and owning our own platforms and websites.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I own SOME of my accounts. I self host lemmy, email, and a friendica instance.

Sorry to bring it up yet again, but I wonder how this works on Bluesky. On Bluesky, I host my own PDS and use my own domain as my handle. I don't see how bsky could try to claim any ownership of either.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

Ah, nice. Thanks

[–] [email protected] 30 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

A country where money gives you power over even the justice system, is just a joke of country and will eventually collapse on itself.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

No it won't. It will prop itself up on labor exploited from the working class.

It's the middle class that will collapse. Eventually everybody will be poor. Nobody but the rich will own land. It'll all be one big exploitation of it's people. Just as russia has done for 1000 years before us.

That's the goal, didn't you know? An entire nation of labor slaves without power, and an entire class of elite without empathy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago

And that's how it'll collapse. People will burn it to the fucking ground.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Now see, I don't like it but the simplest thing would be for musk to ban the account right now.

He's not circumventing anything then. Ownership of the account was transferred, that twitter, a private entity chose to ban it is their business.

It's not worth arguing about. The website and ip is the juicy thing, being able to make satirical info wars programming and products is where it is at. Maybe, maybe there would be a case if musk allowed Jones to make a new account with the same name or otherwise handed it to him.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago

Would be hilarious if the onion just told Musk to shove that account up his ass and take it to bluesky

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 hours ago (3 children)

Classic not a lawyer but the terms of service say,

We give you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the software provided to you as part of the Services. This license cannot be assigned, gifted, sold, shared or transferred in any other manner to any other individual or entity without X’s express written consent.

(Emphasis mine)

Twitter accounts are commonly shared by many individuals and I guarantee they do so without written consent. Does that invalidate/bring into question the whole clause or just the sharing part?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

So Musk wants to take it to court that no accounts on X can be run by a team, only the person who made them, and they can't be transferred.

I wonder who owns @/POTUS then, some random whitehouse intern from almost two decades ago? What about @/Tesla and @/SpaceX, has he received written permission for them :) ?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 hours ago

My understanding is that it's the transfer clause he is focusing on. It's just not clear to me that violating one part of the clause doesn't bring the rest into question.

In the cases of POTUS, Tesla, SpaceX, etc it is certainly possible written permission has been given (although I agree not likely).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 hours ago

I don't see why it would invalidate anything. Companies can enforce their terms at their own discretion. It's not like a trademark where they lose it if they don't use it.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 hours ago

Am I correct in seeing this as the company is claiming that courts of law cannot require them to transfer control of an account from one user to a different user? This despite the fact that doing so has been fairly standard practice for years now?

Personally, I think the lawyers for The Site Previously Known As Twitter have a very weak argument. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, so there's also that.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (2 children)

I don't disagree but I'd say that there's a more important lesson here: The concept of ownership is mediated by a legal system that gives the wealthy a special pass. Rich people can pay lawyers to make up concepts like "superior ownership" 'til the cows come home, and any subsequent precedent costs $600/hr to even access. None of us should feel secure under this system about our online lives or our fucking houses, even if we "own" them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 hours ago

I entirely agree with your main point.

Aside from that, the concept of "superior ownership" isn't something made up any time recently. It's the notion that there are different types of ownership and some of them take priority over others.
For example, if I have a watch, A steals the watch from me and sells it to you, and then B steals the watch from you, you, me and B all have a claim to it.
B possesses the watch so you need to prove they stole it to show you have a superior claim to ownership. You can show that you bought the watch fair and square from A, which means it looks like your claim is valid, but because it was stolen from me in the first place I have the best claim.

It's not a rich person making up a new legal principle, it's a rich person trying to use their money and lawyers to buy an outcome because they don't like one of the parties.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Concepts like "fair", "balanced", and "democracy" can not exist under Capitalism, because money is speech and power, and the small elite who control thousands/millions more capital than average control everything thousands/millions times more than average.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Who owns your outlook.com account? Who owns your gmail.com account? I will give you a guess it is the company that owns the domain to the right of the @.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not sure why everyone is shocked. This has been the case since the beginning of the public Internet. It's their servers, their infrastructure, and everyone should have been completely aware that we are giving them content for free. I was never under any other impression, even back when I was using Usenet and IRC. That's why I don't post anything on social media I truly care about retaining ownership over.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Hey, what's your social security number, real quick! Don't even think about it! Just post it!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

I tried googling that to see if there was a hidden pop culture reference that flew over my head. Kind of like asking for a phone number and replying "867-5309"

Google results first listed a calculator, which solved the equation. -8037 btw.

The next page of results were auto detailing body shops in my area. Which I have to assume are personalized google results, and not an intended point of the joke on your end.

So in the end, I realized we have two different joke phone numbers. Anything with a 555 prefix, is always fake. AND 867-5309 is also always a joke answer.

But we don't have ANY joke social security numbers!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I recommend we use that random one I posted which is sure to be assigned to someone.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

But you own the goodwill and trademarks associated with what's on the left of it.

Similarly, when people sell a business they sell the clients. It stands to reason that the followers can be like clients and should be transferred in the same way as in normal business sales.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

X can't reuse the inforwars account due to the trademark, but they are also not required to transfer ownership or continue providing access to that account.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

True, but I think it's pretty clear what they're trying to actually do; to keep control of the account and use it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 hours ago

I mean... Yeah they can always not give out the accounts, but they will still need to disable them if they don't want to infringe the Infowars trademark that would belong to The Onion

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 hours ago

But then musk would be violating the lease with free speech systems because Jones is no longer the one who owns free speech systems.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 12 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 hours ago

The children yearn for the emerald mines.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Ok, Elon can have the account. The rest of the stuff goes to The Onion. lol

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 hours ago

And Jones is legally banned from using Twitter/X.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 12 hours ago

If this was just about the X/Twitter accounts, then X could just suspend them.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 hours ago

I own my own social media accounts if I run my own instances.

If I use third party social media, then I do not own any account I create on it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago

If he was an US citizen, I would almost panic - sorry guys, love your country but...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago

Ok did any twitter user believe they owned their account?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago

I wonder how this will play out.

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