Ah. Blame America First.
this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2024
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Cuba has been sanctioned for longer than any other country in modern history. But almost a decade ago the Obama administration softened sanctions on the island and restored diplomatic relations with Havana, admitting that over half a century of immiserating the island had failed to oust the communist government. The economic rebound was swift. But in the final weeks of the Trump administration, the White House put Cuba back on the State Department’s list of state sponsors of terrorism, alongside Iran, Syria and North Korea, for nakedly political reasons and without providing evidence.
Cuba watchers expected that Biden would restore Obama’s raft of achievements. After all, on the campaign trail in 2020 Biden promised that as president he would “reverse the failed Trump policies that inflicted harm on Cubans and their families.”
Instead, Biden has one-upped Trump by going further than the previous administration in attacking Cuba’s tourism industry – the main engine of the island’s economy. Two years ago, the Biden State Department barred foreigners who visit Cuba from visa-free travel to the U.S.
It kind of is America's fault.
No it isn't. It's not the fault of the fault of the US that Cuba ran out of clean water, electricity and food. They are inept, and no longer supported by the Soviet Union and Venezuela. Venezuela ran out of toilet paper once, and people blamed the US. Ridiculous
So can I tie someone down to a set of train tracks and absolve myself of any culpability when they eventually get run over by a train?
The easy response is that they tied themselves to the tracks. Besides human rights abuses, there's this.
The US can choose who it does business with.
The easy response is that they tied themselves to the tracks.
No they really didn't and you're intentionally deflecting the point. Relationships were being normalized. True, Trump walked them back. But Biden campaigned on bringing it back and not only did he fail on it, he made them worse. And people wonder why Democrats aren't getting as many latino voters. You're insistence on deflecting the blame is counter-productive to the kind of discussions needed for a healthy political climate in America.
Cuba never lived up to its side of the deal. Free and fair elections were not held, prisoners were not released and the safe haven for terrorists was maintained. Takes two to tango. Still, their present situation is not due to an embargo. That's. Simply their excuse.
Exactly, even China is getting tired of Cuba because it does not want to implement economic reform. But it spends that money on building hotels or on luxuries for the island's political elite.
What deal in specific are you talking about here?
There were high level diplomatic discussions between the US and Cuba in 2016. The result of which Raul Castro announced he would not stand for re election. Fidel, who was still alive, seemed good with this. Then, the brothers Castro re reversed themselves. They conducted the same old shame elections. As usual, they wanted their cake and eat it too. Congress, particularly Cuban American members, became more more reluctant to continue the diplomatic thaw.
Ok, so no actual deal right? Just discussions. Gotcha.
So in the absence of any actual deal that was supposedly reneged on Cuba's part. What's the justification of the sanctions imposed by Trump and Biden, and it's continuation of it?
No actual documents exist for the diplomc thaw. If you want those, fill out an FOI request. Otherwise, the congressional journal will have to do.
Here's your justification
No actual documents exist for the diplomc thaw.
Because they don't exist.
You're link is for 2019. Biden ran in 2020 and he included in his platform to move towards normalizing relationships with Cuba. He has since decided to impose even more sanctions which had a direct negative result on the Cuban economy making them much more vulnerable to disasters like this. So again, what are the justifications of the sanctions?
They do exist. There were at least 4 rounds of diplomatic discussions. Notes were taken.
The link still stands at State. It's the current position.
What new sanctions? Specifics.
They do exist. There were at least 4 rounds of diplomatic discussions. Notes were taken.
Ok so show me evidence of this supposed deal then.
The link still stands at State. It’s the current position.
And Biden campaigned on changing it but broke that promise.
What new sanctions? Specifics.
It's literally in the article as well as one of the excerpts I quoted to you in my first comment:
Instead, Biden has one-upped Trump by going further than the previous administration in attacking Cuba’s tourism industry – the main engine of the island’s economy. Two years ago, the Biden State Department barred foreigners who visit Cuba from visa-free travel to the U.S.
Thats not new, the US can and does bar travel in the US based on previous travel. Post 911, if you visit a terrorist state, you don't get to roam the US. But, it's interesting that you blame Cuba's electrical grid failure on it.
Ok now you're really just being intentionally obtuse. The terrorist designation was older than the Biden administration. The limitations on the tourism was during the Biden administration.
But, it’s interesting that you blame Cuba’s electrical grid failure on it.
I blame American sanctions on Cuba's inability to adequately help it's people during a disaster, yes.
It's not obtuse, it's a fact. Maybe just realized as a fact, but a fact nonetheless.
First, the way the Caribbean countries work, the original ownership countries are supposed to help out after disasters and sometimes they dont. So the british are reactive usually. France sometimes. Dutch do what they can. US should always be there for Puerto Rico and the VI.
I guess it would be Spain for Cuba. Have they asked? Has Cuba asked the US? Personally I'd be all for helping. To a point.
It’s not obtuse, it’s a fact. Maybe just realized as a fact, but a fact nonetheless.
Show me evidence of this supposed fact of yours then.
I guess it would be Spain for Cuba. Have they asked? Has Cuba asked the US?
An intentional deflection from the point of US sanctions harming Cuba's ability to support itself after a natural disaster. But to entertain your question, yes they did ask.
Personally I’d be all for helping. To a point.
No you just want to tie your views on humanitarian aid to political beliefs, and not actual humanitarian ones. It's abundantly clear you're not able to see America do anything wrong on the world stage and instead insist that everything it's done is justified but fail to actually provide the justifications.
yes they did ask
They asked for money? That's kind of funny. They know Congress would never give them money.
No, actually I'd be for it, to a point. Had a friend of mine piloting a hurricane hunter during the height of tensions with Cuba. He was in the middle of a storm run and lost an engine. An oh shit moment and declared an emergency. Cuba gave himn permission to land, gave him coffee, fixed the plane, sent him on his way. Cuba watches NOAA and appreciates it.
But, not money. They can buy food and medical supplies from us, so maybe a small line of credit. Congress would be needed for that BTW
I see nothing funny about a country whose in abject poverty, thanks to foreign interference, be in a dire situation due to a natural disaster.
They know Congress would never give them money.
Kinda the point, no?
They can buy food and medical supplies from us
With what fucking money?
The expectation is funny, considering Congress hasn't financed disaster recovery in the US yet.
Its not the US taxpayer's problem if Cuba can't afford something. If you've ever visited the Caribbean you would know there are a lot of countries on a tight budget.
The expectation is funny, considering Congress hasn't financed disaster recovery in the US yet.
What? What are you even talking about here?
Its not the US taxpayer's problem if Cuba can't afford something. If you've ever visited the Caribbean you would know there are a lot of countries on a tight budget.
It is, when they apply international pressure to sanction them and forcing the entire country into poverty.
What? What are you even talking about here?
Congress is not in session, and hasn't passed a bill to pay the damages from two hurricanes.
It is, when they apply international pressure to sanction them and forcing the entire country into poverty.
BS. There is no international pressure.
And yet, the US just announced foreign aid to Gaza the other day.
BS. There is no international pressure.
Just read the article man. This is just getting sad. I feel like I'm talking to a MAGA voter with the amount of deflection and fanaticism you're displaying. And I haven't even touched on all the misinformation I had to call you out on.
Congress assigned money to be used by State some time ago.
I feel like the MAGA guys may not be wrong about about this woke thing. Though they do have Blame America instead of Blame Erybody Not US, it's still nativisum
Ok so foreign aid can still be distributed. Thanks for helping me prove my point.
And yeah, you would think that way.
When congress passes a foreign aid bill, it doesn't just open the wallet. The destination and conditions are stipulated.
it doesn’t just open the wallet.
The Office of Foreign Assistance is responsible for the supervision and overall strategic direction of foreign assistance programs administered by the U.S. Department of State and U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).
See what I mean about how much misinformation you generate? How about your next reply comes with sources and backed up facts?
USAID is different than the humanitarian aid Gaza got. USAID is for specific projects at the department of states discretion. There are rules for what qualifies. For instance Egypt may need telecom cable and dont have the wherewithal, so they put in a USAID request. Theres a limited amount in USAID. I dont have time to teach you more.
I dont have time to teach you more.
No, you just have time to make up random facts and without sources. Again.
For instance Egypt may need telecom cable and dont have the wherewithal, so they put in a USAID request.
Similar to how Cuba asked for aid?
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Biden did not remove the sanctions that Trump had put in place because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican.
Can you source this please? I'm not able to find anything like that on my own.
Nowhere in either of the 2 articles you provided does it say Cuba tried to influence votes in any way. In fact, they full on say that there is no real reason that Cuba is sanctioned to begin with:
From the first article:
In short, there is no longer any legitimate rationale whatsoever for Cuba being designated a state sponsor of terrorism. Cuba stays on the list because the Biden administration does not have the political courage to remove it — even though Cuba and the United States have a Memorandum of Agreement and active dialogue on counter-terrorism cooperation!
The second article only mentions that upset Cuban-Americans (not the Cuban government) were upset with the Democrats and voted Republican.
A vocal Cuban diaspora community in the U.S. has helped push the formerly contested state of Florida firmly into Republican hands. Among Democrats, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chair Bob Menendez, himself the son of Cuban immigrants who fled prior to the revolution, has proven to be among the most powerful opponents within Biden's own party of any easing of restrictions against Cuba.
I was talking about the Cuban electorate that participates in the elections. Not the Cuban government, which in my opinion I don't think wants to invest in having its famous excuse removed because it would ruin it.
But I'll leave you with another more recent piece of news that shows how much percentage of Cubans still support the embargo.
No you said, "because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican".
So no, the sanctions are not justified.
Why do you think I'm referring to the Cuban government when I talk about Cuban voters?
No, it's just an excuse for the regime. But Cuban voters are the ones who rule the elections.
because they provoked the Cuban electorate living in Florida to vote Republican
Who's they in this case?
I am referring to Cubans who live in Florida and who are an important group for Democrats and Republicans.
So Cuban-American's living in America voted one way and therefore Cuba must be punished? Not really getting your logic here.
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Cuba is not the most sanctioned country in the world, that position is held by Iran and Russia. Cuba only uses sanctions to justify its mistakes and its ineptitude, but with each passing year it becomes more difficult.
Even China is getting tired of Cuba because it does not want to change its economy.
Cuba is not the most sanctioned country in the world
I never said that? Not sure what the point of your comment is here.
When confronted with the consequences of decades of timidity, centrists start sounding like what happens when you pull the string on the back of a trump supporter.
That sentence has been strangled fir all it's worth, which isn't much. Communist controlled states have these consequences and they blame others for them.
Communist controlled states have these consequences and they blame others for them.
Yeah I'm sure it has nothing to do with the embargo that has been in place for, what, ~80 years now? Completely unrelated.
You'd think the US can't choose who to do business with.
Huh?
Did you forget the point you originally made, and default to "hurr durr we're allowed to embargo whoever we want"?
Thus.
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