Not trying to start a fight, just curious. If you (vegans) already know we (meat eaters) don't care, why would you keep pursuing that line of argument?
this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2024
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At least for my part:
For the same reason I try to fight against injustices for people?
Why do I, as a male, condemn sexist behavior and fight against it? Why do I, as a teacher, stand in for the rights of my students when they get wronged? Why do I, as a human, hate to see other people fighting?
It's a mixture between empathy and a feeling of justice.
I just dislike unjust behavior - and for me, animal cruelty is unjust.
I think you meant you condemn sexist behavior...
Big Oof.
Thanks for the note, I was kinda hastily writing this and not thinking it through.
Sounds like you should be working on laws to restrict meat eating. That's typically how we handle injustices on a society wide scale.
You can't work on laws to restrict meat eating without getting the public onboard first. Our democracy is flawed, sure, but we don't live in an autocracy. Vegan activists do work day in and day out on lobbying for legislation. California just the other day banned octopus farming.
But that worked because the public was broadly onboard with it because of the recent public understanding of how intelligent octopodes are. If California somehow passed a restriction on meats like pork, beef, chicken, etc., then the entire state would immediately riot and kick the legislature out, completely undoing the restriction.
Good point.
May I ask this.... Would you decide to gradually change your lifestyle to a less cruel one when the vegan arguments seem to be correct or would you rather wait for a law against eating meat?
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Well, yes. That sounds reasonable at first.
But also, think of the broader public reaction, if governments started banning meat / animal products / whatever industries that exploit animals.
I do not think most people would be fine with a government mandated ban on those goods/practices.
Consider that we all used to be in your position.
What took you from not caring to caring?
Information, the same information those groups put on their signs when they protest
Like what? I'm wondering if there's something that would make me care.
Not the person you were talking to, but what took me from vegetarian to vegan was the documentary Dominion. I couldn't reconcile what was happening on the screen to the benefit I got from it. I felt appalled at myself.
I'm usually abysmal at sticking to personal change; this is probably one of the only ones that ever stuck with me.
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Humans, all humans, have a built-in ability to not care about other people. This can easily extend to animals as well. That's all it is, they don't want to care so they don't. They want to eat/use animal products and are far enough removed from the gruesome aspects of it that they can just choose to not care.
The argument some people give is that plants also feel pain.
Which reveals how little they understand about what they're talking about
But you can just simply ask them if they want to say by that that cutting an onion is in principle the same as cutting the throat of a cow. They'll row back then I assume
idk, personally I really don't care that much about eating corpses, maybe I'm too detatched or a horrible person, but for some reason I'm fine with it
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I'm a native with prehistoric roots to meat eating and being part of the chain. I personally do not eat meat, but I see no moral issue with hunting in the way it's supposed to be. Not this AR 15 hunting for trophies bullshit. I'm talking ethical, respectful, using every part in a spiritual way. No factory farming. What are most vegans views on native culture in that sense?
Curious, how is hunting with an AR unethical?
I'm guessing it's more about the standard round that it fires. 5.56 or .223 rounds are built more for penetrating materials so when they're up against a fleshy target, unless you hit them right in the vitals, might not cleanly kill and cause prolonged suffering. That's not to say that the gun can't be chambered in something that's more useful for hunting but having a 20-30 round magazine for hunting is still a bit overkill.
Most states have a limit on how many rounds when you are hunting wild game, 4-5 max capacity.
I think the main difference between you and the people from your prehistoric roots is that you have many other choices. You don't have to continue to hunt down many animals, because you can choose to buy certain foods and you also have the choice to buy plant based foods.
Whenever you have the choice to buy plant based foods, there is no chance to argue that purchasing animal products in that case is somehow ethical.
The only way to defend hunting for your own survival is when you don't live in a place where you have many foods available. Like, let's say you are on an island where there is no shopping centre or anything. You obviously need to hunt to survive. But if you live somewhere where many plant based foods are available, saying that killing animals is justified in order to get food makes no sense at all. And is certainly not ethical (Deciding to kill an individual being without any necessity can never be ethical)
Still odd how you're talking about people having the choice of what to eat while you reject their choice.
What exactly do I reject?
I'm a person with prehistoric roots to eating humans and being part of the chain. I personally do not eat human meat, but I see no moral issue with hunting people in the way it's supposed to be. Not this AR-15 hunting for trophies bullshit. I'm talking ethical, respectful, using every part in a spiritual way. No factory farming. What are most non-cannibals' views on my culture in that sense?
That your culture is "native" makes it no less unethical, and killing with an AR-15 versus with a traditional weapon definitely has zero ethical difference (if anything, a bullet is likely minimally more humane).
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Facebook ahh post
everytime i see ppl saying "ah" instead of "ass," I read it in Jeff Goldblum's voice
What about the end goal of all this? If people stop eating cows, and then we stop keeping and breeding cattle because no one is eating them, where do all the cows go?
Same situation as what happened to the horses when cars were invented and then they became obsolete.
So drastic population decline, then?
I just worry that if humanity no longer has a use for cattle, they would likely be seen as a nuisance and driven to extinction.
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The cows are headed to the horse and orphan grinder, I guess. Sad times.
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