this post was submitted on 16 Feb 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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Particularly, why are they so desperately pushy about it? WHAT COULD POSSIBLY BE IN IT FOR THEM???

I would understand if I was having to pay for the upgrade. Then, ya know, they would be MOTIVATED by the fucking PROFIT MOTIVE.

But it's an apparently entirely free upgrade. So please, could someone fill in these blanks for me: "Microsoft wants me to upgrade to Windows 11 (and then 12) because _______. They will directly (or even indirectly) benefit in the following ways: ______________________"

Now, I'm not a complete fucking moron. I realize that they want to close out support for Windows 10. But that doesn't explain the out-and-out salesmanship that's going on, every time the fuckers try to get me to upgrade.

A couple other things, before you even start yapping at me:

First off, I will only upgrade to Windows 11 or 12 when I am absolutely forced to do so, on the day that Windows 10 becomes unsupported, and will therefore become a security risk.

NOTHING will convince me to "upgrade" my operating system before that date. Nothing. I don't care what you have to say. You WILL fail to persuade me. Don't even make the attempt.

In my opinion, Windows 7 should have been the last version of the OS. It should just have been patched forever, until some kind of major revolution in the whole basis of computing finally made its entire architecture fundamentally obsolete.

Updating an operating system is beyond drudgery, and each "upgrade" adds completely counter-productive, worse-than-useless bloat and nonsense. There is nothing to be excited about, when a new version of any operating system comes out. They should literally stop coming out.

Second, I'm not switching to Linux. I have used Linux in the past, for specific tasks and specific situations, but it will NEVER be my primary operating system, on my primary PC.

Do not bother trying to convince me to switch. Again: you WILL fail to persuade me. Do not waste your time. Linux is always 80-90 percent of the way toward being a true turn-key, user-friendly solution, especially for someone who has a long history of using Windows software, for both work and gaming. And 90 percent good simply isn't good enough.

The learning curve isn't worth it. No, I don't want to hear anything you have to say about that. I'm not interested in how good the current version of whatever Linux branch has gotten. Do not bother. I promise you, I will not be reading it.

EDIT: if you even mention Apple, I will just laugh in your face.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 10 months ago (1 children)

short answer: windows 11 gives them access to more of your data.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

not... me.

("I use arch, BTW,")(well, actually, I've been running with Manjaro for the last bit. I tend to hop around for the lulz)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago

So they can put AI in everything and slurp all your data. Well at least, they don't say they aren't doing that.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I hate Microsoft.

However, it's expensive for them (or anyone) to maintain old software with never-ending security patches.

All software has a lifecycle. When they said Windows 10 would be the last version, we all knew they were full of shit. Never believe promises made by a corporate marketing team.

They also want to brag to shareholders about Windows 11 adoption numbers. So it's in their interest to coerce more people into upgrading.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

That's fair enough. I suppose it's cost-effective enough to try and nag people to switching, as soon as possible, as I noted in another comment.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago (19 children)

You are the product. If you don't like it then fix that last 10% in Linux or find alternatives to the few things holding you back.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It costs money to keep an OS patched and secure. They don't wanna do it anymore.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It costs money to make a brand-new OS and keep it patched and secure. Why do they want to do that?

I suspect it's got something to do with selling everyone's data and/or advertising to them, and/or selling them products and services.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

They obviously want their newest/flagship OS to be secure, or people wouldn't want to use it, and they'd be stuck supporting people on 10+ year old OS:es instead.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I mean yeah, that's a probably part of it. The latest Outlook and Teams app is a privacy nightmare. Plus there’s ads, but sadly that’s nothing new with Windows. It’s also a continuation of their push for SaaS, pushing their subscription services like One Drive and O365. They also really want you to use their App Store to buy software.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Regardless of user count they have promised support for windows 10 until October 2025. Windows 11 has more ads and data harvesting.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

Dunno but I've finally gotten sick of windows.

Been spending my time after work the last 2 weeks shifting my software stack from windows to a debian testbench, while learning docker. Once that's finally mirrored the way I want I'll wipe the windows machine, install Debian, and move all the containers back over to it.

Microsoft can go fornicate themselves with a chainsaw.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don’t really know and am not going to take time to look for example articles, but it seems like I’ve seen a lot of stories lately where Microsoft has a lot of ability to track users internally in Windows 11 for better “spyware” for Microsoft’s own financial gain. Largely it seems to be to get people to use more of Microsoft’s paid services that have recurring fees, which will benefit Microsoft financially more in the long run than a one-time upgrade fee.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

My insane thoughts are this, Microsoft wants all your data so they may use it to sell you something, from the advertisers they made money from by sharing your information.

Microsoft is also in bed with OpenAI. It seems OpenAI wants an operating system that will require you, as a user, surrendering to them full access and control of everything. https://gizmodo.com/openai-wants-to-control-your-computer-1851240566

Profit and control are the ultimate goal, imo.

[–] pan_troglodytes 7 points 10 months ago

less a question and more of an opinion. is there an opinion community? maybe post there instead

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I won't claim to know for sure, but I'll place my bet on it still being about motivated by profit and growth. Supposedly Windows 10 was supposed to be the last Windows ever, and move to an eternal patching process, but I guess that didn't stick. So obviously just keeping you on Windows isn't enough, they found a need to create a refresh.

I did notice that refresh has new hardware requirements, like TPM modules and such. Deals with the OEMs to get people to buy/build new PCs?

There's talk of advertisements and sponsored links in the very Start Menu, so partnerships with advertisers to get closer to your daily activities?

I won't say I know for sure, because I only use Windows for video games. So, I too will be running Windows 10 until the games don't work anymore. Might I recommend, if you can get a copy, Windows 10 LTSC? It is a bared bones version of Windows made (by Microsoft) for enterprises and governments who would never buy into consumer features like advertising and analytics, so it's very clean, fast, and not full of spying junk or ads like the Home versions. And it hasn't bugged me once about upgrading. All my games run fine after some one-time minor command prompt foolery to get the Store and XBOX game pass apps back.

EDIT: Also, LTSC is Long-Term Support Channel, so additionally it will be supported longer than the regular editions, and be safer longer. Unless they change their minds this time around of course, but I doubt it. You don't rush the government through a PC upgrade if you want them to fund you.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

LTSC also doesn't get incremental updates other than absolutely critical vulnerability fixes. It's specifically meant for machines that need everything to function exactly the same over a long period of time, e.g. point of sale machines, the accounting/inventory machine that hangs out in the back office, so on. You aren't going to get any major update or overhaul pushed to an LTSC version of Windows.

LTSC can also be a pain in the tuchus to get your hands on as an individual. If you have an MSDN account however (like through work or school) they often come with a bunch of keys for Microsoft products, including LTSC products. You can check here, just try logging in with your work/school email - even if it's non-Microsoft - and see what happens.

If you can't get your hands on an LTSC copy, then at a minimum try getting a copy of Windows 10/11 "N", which comes without Windows Media Player and Skype pre-installed. It's nowhere near as clean as LTSC, but every little bit helps.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I wouldn’t say it’s only Critical, LTSC still gets average security fixes. They don’t get Feature updates, but they still get Security updates, is how it’s normally put. And it’s not as bad as it sounds. Even as a gamer stability is a good thing, and there are plenty of third party softwares for any desirable “features” that get delayed or skipped. If LTSC gets any fewer security updates it’s because it has less built in crap to need updating.

I’ve never needed funny graphics in my taskbar search bar or Bing in my start menu or the Edge bar or whatever it was that now clutters my friend’s task bars as of the last Feature update. But I still get my security fixes and Defender definitions every Patch Tuesday.

But the trick is getting a copy, true.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Windows 7 is 15 years old. That's a long time to go with no new functionality. You may not care, but Microsoft is gonna need a critical mass of people to want that to make it economical to maintain a release for 15 years.

If you don't want to use something like Linux, which does offer more flexibility to keep UI the same, then I'd probably try adopting software packages that aren't going to change so that an update has less impact on you. Don't use the OS's bundled file manager or text editor or music player or whatever; use a third-party package that's maintained UI consistency and been around for a long time.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

I think Windows 8 is the most hated version of Windows ever. Balmer jumped the gun on that one, trying to integrate UI design between Microsoft phones and desktop Windows, was never seen as a benefit by users. I guess many believe Windows 7 was the last really good version of Windows.
Personally I love these Windows upgrades, every single one of them. They are always good opportunities for Linux users to get good hardware dirt cheap.
As to why Microsoft wants you to upgrade IDK, maybe because it helps OEMs sell more machines, each with a paid Windows license?
Microsoft may also have upped the level of advertising and found more ways to monetize it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I think Windows 8 is the most hated version of Windows ever.

You must not have been around for Millenium Edition.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

WindowsME was really a bad and traumatic moment. He had a mental block ;)

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes I was, and that was bad, but people mostly hated it for being bloated. Windows 8 was a whole other level of hate. Millennium was more like Vista.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

ME had only partial compatibility with DOS software despite being a DOS based OS, but it also did not support the newer NT kernel that XP was based on. It was very unstable, even worse than 98 was. It was even worse than XP prior to the 2004 Service Pack that fixed XP. It was so bad that it only existed for a single year.

The biggest problem people had with 8 was the Metro UI. And yeah, that thing was hideous. Prioritized touxhscreens over actual desktop productivity.

But 8 was functionally faster than 7. I'd even say that Vista users suffered more than 8 users.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I challenge your claim that Windows 8 is/was the most hated version of Windows.
Let me remind you of the trainwreck that was Windows ME.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Windows ME did not have forced upgrades, and was more like Vista.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

You sound like my buddies 10yo daughter when she hops online to play games with us. "Everything is not fair, I want it to magically change without my intervention and I don't want to do anything about it or be told to take action or take advice that is given."

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Advertising. They want to embed advertising to generate more revenue.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

There's that new clippy thing that lets you record an arbitrary region of the screen. That and HDR stuff. Everything else in Windows 11 is on par or a regression over previous functionality. It's the New Coke of Windows operating systems. 😆

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Everyone's already said the reason, so I'll just use this comment to suggest a nice little program called Darik's Boot and Nuke to erase a troublesome OS that doesn't want to go away, along with everything else on the drive.

My primary machine used to be a Windows 8 machine. It runs Windows 7 well enough, after downloading a few drivers.

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