this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
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Science Memes

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Zero to hero (mander.xyz)
submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (3 children)

0 is not a natural number. 0 is a whole number.

The set of whole numbers is the union of the set of natural numbers and 0.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Does the set of whole numbers not include negatives now? I swear it used to do

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

That might be integers, but I have no idea.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

An English dictionary is not really going to tell you what mathematicians are doing. Like, its goal is to describe what the word "integer" means (in various contexts), it won't tell you what the "integer series" is.

https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/138633/what-are-the-whole-numbers

The gist I see is that it's kind of ambiguous whether the whole number series includes negatives or not, and in higher math you won't see the term without a strict definition. It's much more likely you'd see "non-negative integers" or the like.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

wdym, you know what integers are called in latin languages? "inteiros" (pt), literally "whole". everyone that does higher math (me included) uses it and understands it for what it is: numbers that are not fractions/irationals.

Just cause there exists an English hegemony and your language is ill defined and confused with your multiple words for a single concept, that doesn't mean you get to muddy the waters, rename something in maths, and make a mountain out of a mole hill. Integers include negatives and zero, saying whole numbers and integers is the same, no room for debate

now excuse me while i go touch some grass

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Whoa, whoa, I'm not making this out to be like an imperialism thing. I'm not interested in what people ought to do.

The link I gave, a comment in there gives examples of papers where the term is being used to mean different things. So, this ambiguity is either something you just have to contend with (people using the term wrong), or you just don't read from those people. It's fine. Nobody is coming for you, I promise.

If I were in your class and you said "the whole numbers" but meant the negatives too, that'd probably give me pause (dumb American), but I have such herculean powers of intuition that I probably wouldn't even ask you a question about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

My comment was mostly in jest, it came out all wonky, I shouldnt post sleep deprived :p

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Oh, it's no problem :p

I don't think I've seen Etymonline before, so I should thank you for introducing me to it. I do really like etymology, actually.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I would say that whole numbers and integers are different names for the same thing.

In german the integers are literally called ganze Zahlen meaning whole numbers.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

This is what we've been taught as well. 0 is a whole number, but not a natural number.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Whole numbers are integers, integer literally means whole.