D&D Next - 5e Discussion

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"I think Wizards balances classes using damage on a single target nova over 3 rounds." Very interesting post I think is worth sharing (www.reddit.com)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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Hate to share from the site we definitely don't think about anymore, but I think this is too interesting to miss. If true, it's a big insight into the design of the game. All credit to that OP of course.

Summary is that WotC's balancing decisions seem to make sense if they balance the classes like they balance monsters, using max damage output over a three-round fight. Basically they overvalue that, especially for certain nova classes (the OP suggests those classes are Fighter/Wizard/Sorcerer) and undervalue utility.

TLDR. WoTC seems to value Single Target Guaranteed DPR in a Nova over 3 rounds, and balances the game around that not too dissimilar to how they calculate the power of CR. And that seems to reflect every design decision and choice they have made when viewed this way, and what they gauge class power around. The core resource management of the game is about novaing now or later, and how can classes recover their novas.

Based on the way they've reigned in nova damage with 1D&D but have left utility spells basically untouched, I think the theory has merit.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I firmly disagree with that. It's less obvious how you fight magic, but most importantly I think most people feature a work inherently skewed in favour of players. By this I mean that players with a spellcaster (or several) in the world will have an easier time using magic than their enemies or actually anyone who doesn't wield magic by itself. This is a bias, some kind of "magic is exceptional, but somehow your party has more spellcaster than a duke can find".

I feel like most people expect their party to be way over levelled relative to the actual adventure tier. In fact, most people seem to think in a Tier2 adventure context against a tier3 party. Or tier 1 context vs a Tier2 party.

Look at most movies, and you'll see heroes with no powers do heroic things.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not really sure what you mean you disagree with. I think we're talking at cross purposes here, because I'm not quite getting where you're going with what you're saying.

The thing about movies and other pieces of narrative fiction is that the writers can and very often do arrange the narrative so that the main characters are more able to evenly contribute, despite having wildly different capabilities. Like how Vision got stabbed at the beginning of Infinity War and was weakened for the whole movie, or how Dr. Strange got stuck holding back water during the final fight in Endgame, or how characters like Superman and the Flash constantly job and forget powers they have or that they're also geniuses, or half the enemies inexplicably have a supply of Kryptonite, so that Batman has something to do. And even then, there are clear differences in what they achieve: Thor's arrival in Infinity War was a "the day is saved!" moment, no one reacts to Hawkeye like that. Superman gets movies about him saving the world by himself, while Batman on his own usually just saves Gotham.

When you put these characters together in the same game for players to pick from, you have to make them more balanced, that's why games like Injustice have plot points where some characters get powers or Superman is weakened by Kryptonite or they just hand-wave things and put characters on roughly the same level. And D&D tries to do that too, they just do something of a half-baked job at it, as the OP is showing. Because if you try to address it narratively like a movie does, the caster players will rightfully feel unfairly targeted: "Wow, this enemy also knows countermagic/has an antimagic item/has magic resistance?"