this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2023
879 points (96.5% liked)

Memes

45887 readers
1124 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
879
6÷2(1+2) (programming.dev)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by wischi to c/[email protected]
 

https://zeta.one/viral-math/

I wrote a (very long) blog post about those viral math problems and am looking for feedback, especially from people who are not convinced that the problem is ambiguous.

It's about a 30min read so thank you in advance if you really take the time to read it, but I think it's worth it if you joined such discussions in the past, but I'm probably biased because I wrote it :)

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

The answer realistically is determined by where you place implicit multiplication (or "multiplication by juxtaposition") in the order of operations.

Some place it above explicit multiplication and division, meaning it gets done before the division giving you an answer of 1

But if you place it as equal to it's explicit counterparts, then you'd sweep left to right giving you an answer of 9

Since those are both valid interpretations of the order of operations dependent on what field you're in, you're always going to end up with disagreements on questions like these...

But in reality nobody would write an equation like this, and even if they did, there would usually be some kind of context (I.e. units) to guide you as to what the answer should be.

Edit: Just skimmed that article, and it looks like I did remember the last explanation I heard about these correctly. Yay me!

[–] wischi 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Exactly. With the blog post I try to reach people who already heared that some people say it's ambiguous but either down understand how, or don't believe it. I'm not sure if that will work out because people who "already know the only correct answer" probably won't read a 30min blog post.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately these types of viral problems are designed the attract people who think they "know it all", so convincing them that their chosen answer isn't as right as they think it is will always be an uphill challenge

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

yeah, our math profs taught if the 2( is to be separated from that bracket for the implied multiplication then you do that math first, because the 2(1+2) is the same as (1+2)+(1+2) and not related to the first 6.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

So you were taught strong juxtaposition then, where the implicit multiplication takes priority?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if it was 6÷2x(2+1) they suggested do division and mult from left to right, but 6÷2(2+1) implied a relationship between the number outside the parenthesis and inside them, and as soon as you broke those () you had to do the multiplication immediately that is connected to them. Like some models of calculatora do. wasn't till a few yeara ago that I heard people were doing it differently.

[–] SmartmanApps 2 points 9 months ago

if it was 6÷2x(2+1) they suggested do division and mult from left to right, but 6÷2(2+1)

Correct! Terms are separated by operators and joined by grouping symbols, so 6÷2x(2+1) is 3 terms - 6, 2, and (2+1) - whereas 6÷2(2+1) is 2 terms - 6 and 2(2+1), and the latter term has a precedence of "brackets", NOT "multiplication". Multiplication refers literally to multiplication signs, which are only present in your first example (hence evaluated with a different order than your second example).

Also noted that the OP has ignored your comment, seeing as how you pointed out the unambiguous way to do it.

[–] SmartmanApps 0 points 10 months ago

2(1+2) is the same as (1+2)+(1+2)

You nearly had it. 2(1+2) is the same as (2x1+2x2). The Distributive Law - it's the reverse process to factorising.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, that's why fractions are good thing.

[–] SmartmanApps 1 points 9 months ago

implicit multiplication

There's no such thing as "implicit multiplication"

Some place it above explicit multiplication and division,

Which is correct, seeing as how we're solving brackets, and brackets always come first.

But if you place it as equal to it’s explicit counterparts, then you’d sweep left to right giving you an answer of 9

Which is wrong.

Since those are both valid interpretations of the order of operations

No, they're not. Treating brackets as, you know, brackets, is the only valid interpretation. "Multiplication" refers literally to multiplication signs, of which there are none in this problem.

But in reality nobody would write an equation like this

Yes they would. a(b+c) is the standard way to write a factorised term.