this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2023
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Ah. So the "left" aren't social left, they just see money as the answer to all social progression too. Got it. Well that explains our current Western progress and predicament. Lot of growing up to do if, as far as social progression goes, money is seen as a power rather than a weakness. Ain't no one in need getting any that way.
History repeats and we all stay the same. New generation, another dollar.
At least "eat the rich" makes more sense. Robin Hood would rob the guy and not socially recognise them as a king. More important things to do.
Edit: I actually expected more down votes than this (7) and was wanting some discourse. Anyone? I'm looking for someone to state what's not already called out in that a core issue is the perception of monetary wealth being a controlling factor of social imbalance—which of course it is with a society of that perception.
You've all got bank accounts drained for the people, not your house deposit, right? Right? Sorry... Left? Left?
The Left: Rich people are the problem
saltesc: So you agree that money is power? Gotcha!
Everyone: What does that even mean?
saltesc: Don't dismiss my word salad without discourse!
Well, actual left doesn't base itself on economical attributes. So it's interesting to see a meme go straight to wealth while claiming leftism. Part of being on the left is recognisimg wealth as a faux controller and issue. Actual left doesn't socially want in on it too. Actual left would aim at rejecting an acknowledgement of wealth by reinforcing services and freedoms to all without requirement of wealth, thus diluting the importance and value of money.
This comic almost opposes that by weighing importance of wealth. It's insulting to leftism by claiming "this is left".
A lot of the replies seem to be the trending American ideas of leftism which are very new and very unique to a $27T GDP with stonks of social issues. Kind of trying to force the two to connect, but that's not how leftism works.
Y'all can literally Google it right now if you need to know what being left is. It's social equality you're meant to be working on, not getting a piece of the pie. Recognising and blaming distribution of wealth is literally opposing leftism because it's acknowledging and giving finance power. The comic is more "I feel left out" when it should be "your money is nothing".
Bro wants to sound important and educated soooo bad. I actually giggled reading "economical attributes". Like I don't think even you understand what you're trying to say.
Leftists want this. You're not saying something revolutionary. The problem is that in America, getting democratic socialism with redistribution of wealth is much more realistic than a total social overhaul like you're suggesting.
Uhhh no. Capitalism and the govt give finance power. Recognizing and attempting to use the system to better the lives of people isn't the problem, it just isn't the ideal solution. It's a stop-gap.
You can claim "true leftism" all day, but I live in reality where half-assed solutions are better than nothing.
TIL criticism of the status quo isn't left. Neither is criticizing power dynamics. It's not about sharing the cake equally but pretending the cake doesn't exist. This will feed the hungry and house the homeless.
Sure, occupying empty houses will house the homeless but only if you are prepared for the power dynamics which is the police will evict you in no time. I wish money was nothing but force ain't nothing and the state has a monopoly on force, so as long as they think money is something, it is. Good luck with your mutual aid initiative or what ever it is you are doing and we can try to change the system, but we can't just ignore it.
States where the society views money as less important than social issues/equality already have and will continue to get progressive social benefits. You can't put a value on something if every expects it to be free. Lack of wealth is not an issue when everyone expects things to be free. But by recognising wealth and pricetags does money become important and thus hoarded. Th cake isn't money, it's cake. You don't need money redistributed for everyone to get cake when cake is expected as a social staple and offset by the society as a whole.
This is fundamental leftism. A society won't achieve it if they're focused on people having more money than them. "But how will I pay for cake if they have all the money?!" Uhhh, you don't. You demand the cake and halt everything until you get the cake. Once everyone has cake, back to business as usual.
I can't recall a single historical social issue that was resolved by acknowledging and redistributing wealth. Enough people just demanded it and social equality happened.
I love how you totally ignore my point. Sure, money isn't the cake, but housing is. Good luck ignoring the cops that evict you!
Sure, I want a classless, moneyless, stateless society but on the way there, we can't ignore what is. I'm not a Marxist but I think we can agree that Marx was left. He wrote a book "Das Kapital". You can literally google what it is about.
I've read plenty of Marx.
I see your point. However, you are still not understanding. Fair housing can't happen if you think it's about distribution of wealth. Stop thinking it's all about money. It's about social equality. The left would introduce rental caps, tenant benefits, rental assistance programs, more rights and benefits to prevent unfair evictions. But also improve housing for renters to have more equal stance to own instead.
This is what left states do. Left is not considering and focusing on redistributing wealth as the centre of social inequality since it is not a social issue. Money comes after. It is a result. If a self-proclaimed "left" is so obsessed with money, I question their concern of actual social equalities because they too are only thinking about the money and there's no resolve in that.
Nobody said it's only about redistributing money. We are talking about a 4 panel meme that says "Rich people are the problem". It's not a manifesto stating that redistribution will solve all our problems. It's a meme saying rich people are the problem. They are the ruling class. Not everything utterance has to have the solution. Sometimes it's enough to state the problem.
I'm full into solving the housing problem by occupying empty houses and self-organized groups around the concept of mutual aid. We need to abolish money and the state and patriarchy but sometimes it's ok to "just" say "rich people are the problem". This doesn't imply that it's the only one and that the solution is easy. It isn't.
Rich people are the by-product of social inequality. The actual problem. Correcting these things would naturally dissolve the power of money since it devalues its place in society as it is less needed for basic social survival.
But in there lies the true issue. If no longer money—an artificial measure of tracking what is valuable in society—what is the next thing the same people will want to control? Our history is riddled with it. That's the tricky part of we abolish money and it does sound awful nice like you say. Gold, water, people, currency, oil... It's always something. But leftism looks to ensure things like this are avoided, not being side-tracked by trying to cure the symptoms. If you are a leftist, people wih absurd control of something (money in this case) are an indicatior equality has been neglected and there's work to do. Step 1, look at what's making them have so much control and start on all of those things. It's not money. Money's not even valuable to many of the left.
I see this comic and I don't see leftism at all. I see someone upset about finance and doesn't know what to do but blame a specific symptom of inequality impacting them. That's not going to do anything and it's not "left". It indicates a value and focus for money that may even see them do the exact same thing if they amassed some, since it's so important to them than much other else in the complexities of society, especially the actual problems causing it.
My triggering issue is it says "this is left" and "this is right" without sensing the irony. The money part is just...so primitive I couldn't help myself. We see things on spectrums with many points peppered across for just a single individual. What upsets me is this primative two camp idea driving "Whatever I don't like must be right/left" without actually understanding what these things are. It's very clear of a naturally divisive society which is a breeding ground for social inequality. It smells distinctly US where almost many things (and historically so) are a really strong competition of one side versus another. Trying to drag leftism into that is actually opposing to its fundamental ideas. Neglecting the spectrum entirely is straight up regressive of social maturity and stability.
I don't think many people on Lemmy actually know what they are except unhappy, and they are looking for comfort and hope in a home. But the principle ideas of leftism do not conduct itself this way, lest it never succeed in progression.
Edit: Also, I appreciate you sticking with me this far :) It's okay if I've been exhausting enough now though. Exchanging thoughts and ideas is super fulfilling and we always get better for it, even if we don't think anything's sticking.
What does your comment mean though? Feel free to attack my reading comprehension but i don't actually think your comment is making a statement. Distill it so my slow ass understands and maybe (and that's a big maybe) we can try to have some sort of conversation. Judging by the downvotes i presume your opinion is unpopular--i just don't understand it well enough to see why.
Asked and answered. It's incoherent borderline word salad and just comes across as really really trollish, especially with the edit demanding "discourse."
I think his comment is reading way way too much into it. The comic is basically saying that "left" is willing to question authority, while "right" takes it as gospel and asks for more.
There's also the claim that criticising weath disparity while living in a very weath-centric system is somehow an endorsement of that weath-centric system.
Guy seems to just want to dump on the idea of left, so I'll leave a downvote and let him dump in peace.
You criticise wealth disparity, yet live in a capitalist society. Curious. I am very intelligent.
Thanks for taking the time to break that down for me. I will just go ahead and attack my own reading comprehension--i never would have deduced that from their comment, no way.
Could it also have something to do with the fact that nowadays what's called "the right" in the US are extremists and what's called "the left" are center-right/right wing?
Maybe. Seeing some of the follow up commonts, it feels more like a no true scotsman fallacy.
"You can't be left without being extreme left" "the left doesn't do moderate left things!" "Thinking about money proves you aren't left!"
As if wanting anything less than a money-free socialist utopia yesterday isn't left enough.
Ive made the same errors as @[email protected] before and probably worse. For me it came from a depressed headspace and bad mindset.
My opinion is left and it's annoyed that someone would say the comic is left.
While the comic is focused on distribution and accumulation of wealth being an issue, actual left recognises finance as an issue. Society doesn't require wealth for equality. People can be rich in leftism. Leftism is social. Social issues is what it addresses. Thinking "left" is somehow attached to finance is fundamentally anti-social. Thinking money should be better disteibuted and not hoarded by the rich is acknowledging money is power which is anti-social.
None of us with national healthcare systems got them by considering money and the rich and who has and who doesn't have money. We got them by acknowledging health as a social issue. Money be damned.
None of us with nationally assisted higher education got it by considering money and the rich and who has or doesn't have money. We got it by acknowledging education as a social issue. Money be damned.
None of us that with gun regulation got it by considering money and the rich and who has or doesn't have money. We got them by acknowledging public safety as a social issue. Money be damned.
This comic... "Nah, it's money, hey. That's what's stopping us. I'm left 👉👈" It's kind of insulting to the ideology. And I expected backlash on here because Lemmy seems to be riddled with backseat leftists that don't actually know what it is. By acknowledging money as some big value implies that when it comes time to pay for social equality, Lemmingtons and the author of this comic will be upset to be getting less money. That's not an issue when money takes anback seat to social progression aka actual left.
Wtf are you trying to say
You calling me crazy? Just 'cause I got a hotel in my foot doesn't make me a boogalymoogalymoogaly!
No one knows what you're talking about
Robin Hood liked the king. He was noble himself.
Oh yeah, haha. Prince*
You and all of the new conservative sign ups on Lemmy need to go back to 4chan or Truth and have your circle jerk. Lemmy was safely claimed by leftists. You're gonna have a bad time here.
You're making bold assumptions and trying to place me in a tribe you see the world as—but I'm of none of the things you mentioned nor even close. You feel you can say that without much thought or concern though because you feel as though you're protected in your camp, why would you declare it so loudly that I know where I am? The reality is, your camp is small, one of millions, and insignificant in global society and culture. You also clearly know as much about conservatism as leftism if you think anything of what I said was ideals or association of conservatism. This must be just what you've learned in your camp.
But, hey. You keep fighting that "us vs them"—whoever the fuck they are—thing you got going on. That's the irony of your self-painted banner. It doesn't help the world progress and encourages we remain conservative of its old social ways and setbacks.
Tribalism is for the old, the weak, and a disgrace on what we're supposed to be and could be. The world's long been too small for you to bark like a yard dog and be intolerant of everything that walks by. Maybe it's time you start reading about the things you claim to hold so dearly. Or don't. I'm a 4chan "conservative" after all. Nazi next, hm?