this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
951 points (98.5% liked)
Technology
58303 readers
9 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Some of you sound like the annoying stereotype of vegans pushing their diet lifestyle.
That's because like vegans, there is a moral imperative that most ignore or don't care about, we have a genuine emotional attachment to foss, and because you are ignorant of the topic, you don't care to listen.
What he said is harmless, true, and there is a moral imperative to say it, and ontop of that it isn't like a diet, it's better software that respects you, doesn't spy on you, and for free and the only downside is a 15 minute install process (and the use of a flash drive). Why do you care enough to fight that?
I'm all for Linux and have been using it for years, but saying a 15min install is the only downside is disingenuous. For many people there are a few programs they rely on that won't work on Linux, and hardware support and general user-friendliness are still not quite where they should be.
the vast majority of hardware is supported, and as someone who works IT and gives linux to the elderly, I don't agree at all with the user unfriendliness, provided you use mint and kde.
If your software doesn't run that does suck, but the vast majority of usecases work perfectly with the breif explanation of "use the app store for any software you need to install." Do you have any examples of user friendliness issues, or is it just that there are choices to make at all?
"The vast majority" is useless if the hardware someone has doesn't work, and you usually don't get official support and warranty from the manufacturer for Linux. There are also some categories like webcams, audio equipment or fingerprint readers where Linux support is still notoriously bad. And even if something mostly works, it's fairly common for some hardware to have missing features, instabilities or minor issues on Linux. E.g. my mouse works on Linux ofc, but the software to set and edit profiles doesn't.
Usability issues are mostly cases where you have to fall back to the terminal. An example from my experience would be that trying to upgrade the system from the app store fails half the time, so I have to use the terminal. Another would be a failed boot or graphics issues due to a broken Nvidia driver installation or messed up SELinux policies. It's all fixable in the terminal, but good luck if you can't use that.
I would not agree that is common at all, these are edge cases and I bet your mouse works with piper.
plus soon immutable distros will fix any chance of system breakages, and it's not like similar things don't regularly happen on windows.
How much are you willing to bet? I give a hint, there is an open issue from 2016 on their GitHub about supporting the manufacturer of my mouse. And that's pretty much the point, because on Windows I just get the software with the box and that's it. Of course it's closed source and stuff, but it still provides a better experience than no support at all. And that's just one example, Linux also can't use the highest available resolution of my webcam, and the fingerprint reader on my laptop has been completely unusable on Linux from day one.
Immutable distros fix most boot issues, in the sense that you can undo a failed change, but that's about it.
Ofc Windows has its fair share of issues, but it just doesn't break as much in my experience. Probably because they have orders of magnitude more people working on finding and fixing consumer issues, incl. from 3rd party device and software manufacturers.
I'm sorry, but you're lying to yourself if you think consumer support is on par with Windows. It's getting closer and closer every year, but we are not there yet.
You can not agree with OP, but that doesn't change reality. Linux is a pain to use for a regular user. Linux doesn't support some programs that people depend on and have learned to use. Those things aren't an issue for Windows, people don't need to look around for fixes.
I get it, you like it. But the reality of it is - it's a niche operating system for home use for a reason.
I don't agree that it's a pain for the regular user, I think it's a pain if you use niche software, or software that's designed to not run on linux intentionally.
Outside of that, it works perfectly fine. The vast VAST majority of users will not miss any software.
I've dealt with enough regular uses to know that no, it's not good for regular users. But you do you - I know that it isn't ready.
I've done the same, I don't think windows is ready for normal users.
Demonstrably false.
Weird that Linux can't run some applications written specifically for Windows. It's a nitpick, but your sentence should be "some programs don't support Linux", because the issue isn't with the OS, it's with the developers of the software.
In any case, outside of some specific examples, most Windows software actually does work on Linux thanks to Wine and Proton.
Maybe not, but they need to look around for fixes to dozens of other issues that shouldn't exist. Like getting rid of ads in your OS.
Who gives a shit what's the reason a critical program isn't running on linux? It doesn't work. That's what counts to me, a user of this program. I won't switch to linux as long as the things I need don't work there. I won't learn alternatives simply to be able to say "I use linux". A lot of people share that sentiment, since for them, the OS they are using is a tool, not a way of life.
Perfectly fine, but it doesn't discount what I said before.
You're right about this also. I want my OS to work for me and I want to not have to fight against the OS to get things done. For me that's Linux. When I used to use Windows regularly it was nothing but annoyance and hindrances.
edit: I meant to say this to the one you replied to!
I agree with you. Plus, most of us are forced to use Windows 11 at work, where we spend most of our screen time.
Maybe I can bother with Linux at home, but that's a fraction of the use case here.
Honestly true. At the very most you have to make certain switches to some software. For elderly people these switches are pretty minor since often they aren’t needing something like industry software for their work and at most will need to switch to like… LibreOffice, OnlyOffice or something of the sort. Not hard. For people in a job that may need design software like any Adobe product, there are Plenty of alternatives that work pretty well. Main thing is just spending a few days to get used to it and learning the differences. Only big thing I’d say that would be very hard to switch to Linux is if you make Music. Because if you use FL Studio, the closest alternative is LMMS… and it sorta sucks and at times is very uncomfortable to work with. You’d probably have to switch to Ardour or Reaper which would be a pretty massive change… Overall though, those account for a small number of people.
I agree with you. Plus, most of us are forced to use Windows 11 at work, where we spend most of our screen time.
Maybe I can bother with Linux at home, but that's a fraction of the use case here.
In fact, installation is one of the easiest parts unless you use vanilla arch
Just fuck off and let me use whatever OS I want
Nobody has forced you to do anything, suggesting better, more respectful software is not force, why bother fighting against a more ethical alternative that respects you?
You're free to choose and they're free to criticise.
If linux was a better software, it would have a substantial desktop share. But it doesn't since it's the most unintuitive userhating software built by man.
Because as we all know, the free market always comes up with the correct answer and is never distorted by companies.
I've never seen any OS being shilled like linux, it even beats apple fanboys during its heyday. A free OS that's constantly pushed down our throats should by all means be a consumers number 1 choice if it was good.
But I guess having to learn 5 million commands to open a folder is bad design, who knew? I have better use for my time than debug drivers and figure out dependencies when W10 sort of works all that out for me in an intuitive fashion.
Thanks for showing that you're not acting in good faith, bye.
You know exactly what I mean though. I just think you can't bear to come up with a lie explaining how "sudo fifo 8 6 j u77f6j 87" is good design.
Are you just typing random letters? Terminal commands are basically programs, like word. There's thousands of them, just like there's thousands of programs on windows. And yeah, these programs, or terminal commands can get quirky, but they are also very powerful.
Luckily for you, modern distributions work perfectly fine without ever touching the terminal, so you should be fine if you prefer gui programs.
Just a reminder for everyone reading this, the comment above is written without an /s.
Just let that sink in for a moment.
It's sinked in.
I agree with the comment above. Have you ever used any modern distro?
I was dualbooting ubuntu around 10 years ago until I figured everything it could do I could do easier on windows.
Even Ubuntu in 2006 had a file explorer.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I was saying there is nothing I couldn't do in linux that wasn't easier in windows. And there were (and still are) plenty of things you can only do on windows.
If you want to use the worse OS to fulfill some psychological complex, go ahead mate but this techveganism is just dull and old.
You were saying that you had to memorize commands just to open a folder.
Plus, in my experience, everything was about the same if not easier on EndeavourOS.
i find there are lots of things i can't do well on windows, but it might be because my knowledge started to stagnate about 20 years ago. for instance, pathing all my executables. i know it sounds niche but hear me out: i still write shell scripts basically every day. so if i need to call, say, inkscape to convert an svg to pdf, i find it's easier in debian, since the inkscape executable is already in my path. and i create scripts all teh time and just stock em in my path. i use windows at work, and i find the whole notion of writing shell scripts for it daunting, not least because i need to track down the exact location of each executable.
If you think you need to learn commands to open a folder you didn't use Linux for the past 20 years. Most things are done now via a graphical environment such as Plasma or GNOME. It's the more advanced things such as managing system services that are done via a terminal. But normal user really doesn't have to do these kind of things for normal desktop use.
mkdir directory_nameThis comment too was posted without an /s. Insane how furries think that is a normal thing to do to use your pc
It’s not normal either… you just use the file manager. It doesn’t even open the folder. Just ignore them.
Also, did you just call us furries without a /s?
Not all linuxusers are furries but all furries are linuxusers.
This comment too was posted without a /s.
ls path/to/directory/Also, vegans actually do something good for the planet instead of just choosing a different OS for their PC. So, maybe acknowledge that to your neighborly vegan next time, instead of telling them a story about how you once met someone who was really pushy about veganism.
What the heck is that image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
"Why do gay people always act flamboyant?"
"Why do vegans always push their lifestyle?"
Because you don't see the ones that don't
Tbf yes. They do something good for the planet. But I wouldn’t say choosing a different OS isn’t good for the planet either. First, you aren’t supporting companies that will burn this planet down without a second thought for a few million dollars. Secondly there are a few things on Linux made to use less electricity than Windows AND the fact it can run on older computers just fine means that there is less of a need for constantly upgrading this creating less computer waste. (Which something I and many others advocate for and a very solid reason to use Linux) but also merely for the fact that it is by far more ethical in a multitude of ways…