this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2023
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Cruise recalls all self-driving cars after grisly accident and California ban | All 950 of the General Motors subsidiary’s autonomous cars will be taken off roads for a software update::All 950 of the General Motors subsidiary’s autonomous cars will be taken off roads for a software update

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What's that rate for human drivers?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Around 1 per 100 million miles.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The irony here is that the accident occurred because a human driver hit this pedestrian first. So it ain’t like us humans have a clean conscience here…

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's a trolley problem of sorts. Currently it seems that we have higher standards for AI than humans. I bet that even if AI was twice as good driver, we'd still hate to hear about it causing accidents. I'm not sure why that is. I'm wondering if it has something to do with the fact, that there's really not anyone to blame and that doesn't fit with our morals.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Because corporations running AI means the first time actual human thought enters the picture is when the dividend check gets deposited.

And shareholder profits, sacred in law and the market, will push safety standards based on cost, not fewest deaths.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

In all weather conditions. Autonomous vehicles only drive in optimal conditions, humans have to suffer whatever nature throws at us.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

According to these numbers 1 death in 73 million miles. Which is much better than I thought.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Which includes trucks hauling through unpopulated areas

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What's the acceptable vehicular homicide rate? GM seems to think it's more than zero.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's equally ridiculous to say. Self driving cars just need to be better than people to be worth it, they just currently are not better than people.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's ridiculous to think that cars shouldn't be killing people? Well smack my ass and call me an extremist.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, it's ridiculous to say that if self driving cars kill fewer people than human driven cars but still more than zero that we should not use them. That's like saying "why use seatbelts, they're not 100% effective."

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's not what I said though.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Are you trying to be this much of an idiot?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's the implications of the logic you're using.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sorry to hear you're having trouble with logic but it's not complicated. Zero people should be killed by cars, therefore anything that gets us closer to that ideal number is a good thing.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I think we have different meanings of the word "should".

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Are you calling for a ban on human driven cars? They killed more than zero people yesterday! If you aren't, you've accepted a human-driven vehicular homicide rate above zero.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It is more than zero. Anything that beats humans is a win. Getting to zero is unrealistic. Nothing has a zero risk of death.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Correct, that's exactly what I'm saying. Zero is the acceptable number, so anything that gets us closer to that is good.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You're shifting goal posts.

What's the acceptable vehicular homicide rate? GM seems to think it's more than zero.

Correct, that's exactly what I'm saying. Zero is the ideal number, so anything that gets us closer to that is good.

Acceptable is different than ideal.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

That's true. But then you run into the issue of "The perfect being the enemy of the good."

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ok ya pedantic fuck. I edited my comment just for you. I know English is hard to understand.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

But now you're misusing "acceptable".

We would need to get to the other side of acceptable for widespread use of autos (self driving vehicles). It's not an unachievable goal you always try to get closer to. That word is your previously used "ideal". Which its seems now is what you meant with your original comment, instead of the "acceptable" you actually used.

It's not just pedantic. I'm not the only one who thought you said something you apparently now didn't mean, because you used words you apparently don't understand. The words you use are vital to your being understood.

You could just humbly admit your original mistake in language, and nobody would give you a hard time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm misusing "acceptable" because you think I mean something that I didn't mean? Move along then.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes! Exactly! And based on the vote counts I'm seeing 2/3 people misunderstood you. And when one is trying to explain something to another, if the other doesn't understand, it can logically only be the fault of the person explaining.