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submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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DOJ probing Tesla’s EV range after reports of exaggerated numbers | Tesla has allegedly been canceling service appointments from customers who are discovering their vehicles are not getting as much...::Tesla disclosed that the Department of Justice is seeking information about the company’s vehicle range after reports alleged that the company was exaggerating its figures.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Because a lot of the exageration can be attributed to weather. You are going to have shorter range in the winter.

I don't really buy that. We don't (well, most people don't) drive around in freezing cold cars. The cares are heated and it doesn't use much energy. Also if your EV is plugged in overnight it should be pre-heated to a sensible temperature (still cold, but not freezing).

Combustion engines also struggle in cold weather - that's why the cooling system is disconnected until the engine reaches operating temperature. Electric motors and batteries generate heat when they're running - harnessing that to keep the batteries warm.

Some brands only lose 3% of their range in cold weather. The shitty brands lose up to 35%... that's not the technology's fault, it's a failure by the engineering team and consumers should be entitled to a refund if it was sold in a cold climate with only the summer range advertised. The car isn't fit for purpose.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I would be interested in the cars that lose 3% in cold weather. Got a source for what cars do they? Even the new Fords lose massive range

[+] [email protected] -8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You might "buy" more things if you actually continue reading rather than instantly feeling the need to stop and respond to a post?

But to address a few of your expansions on what I said immediately after you just HAD TO CORRECT SOMEONE!!!!

People don't drive around in freezing cold cars: It matters less what the temperature in the cabin is and more what the temperature on the battery itself is. Most designs try to consolidate both to a degree but, for safety and insulation reasons, you are going to have a difference
Cars are heated and it doesn't use much energy: That is only if you have a heat pump rather than resistive heating. Most of the mid/upper tier (e.g. ioniq5) provide these, but not all do. And, if it is snowing and raining hard, you will start to run into the limitations of a heat pump. At which point you are either SOL or back to resistive heating
If your EV is plugged in overnight: That is one of the ongoing issues with EVs where the vast majority of apartment complexes and hotels don't have chargers
EV batteries and motors generate heat when they are running: To nowhere near the same degree as a combustion engine

And then you just reiterated exactly what I said after you cut off the quote, regarding different brands and models having different behavior.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

you just HAD TO CORRECT SOMEONE!!!

Erm... this is a community focused on discussion. And I wasn't "correcting" you, I was disagreeing with you.

It matters less what the temperature in the cabin is and more what the temperature on the battery itself is.

If the cabin is warm and the battery is cold, somehow exchange heat between the two. It's not hard and it can be done only when the weather is cold.

ICE cars have had the capacity to exchange heat between the cabin and the motor for pretty much as long as they have existed. You'd have to go back almost a hundred years to find a car that lacks that feature - (that's how car heaters generally work).

That is only if you have a heat pump rather than resistive heating

Every car has a heat pump - it's more commonly called air conditioning, but it's the same thing. And while some are only capable of cooling the ones that can do both cooling and heating cost basically the same to manufacture.

the vast majority of apartment complexes and hotels don’t have chargers

That's relatively easy to fix though. Chargers don't cost much to install, get it done in your own home (even if it's just 110v - more than enough to keep the batteries warm) and you should be able to find hotels that have them (though seriously, how often are you staying in hotels and driving your own car? that's a bit of a niche...)

And then you just reiterated exactly what I said after you cut off the quote

I did read your entire comment. I agree with the facts you wrote but what I don't agree with is your interpretation of them. A car that has 35% less than the advertised range for several months of the year does not meet customer expectations and should be either fixed with a recall or customers given a refund. It's false advertising. It's illegal. And it's good to see the DOJ is probing them.

All Tesla had to do was tell the truth "you get this range in winter, this range in summer". Simple. They can't turn back time though - that advertising had to be made before anyone in a cold climate bought a car off them.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 year ago

All telsa had to do is complie with current standards which is to list highway and local mpg equivalent.

Chevy doesn't list a cold range when I need to idle the engine to get it warm enough to drive on a standard car.