this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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Unpopular Opinion

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We're in the 21st century, and the vast majority of us still believe in an utterly and obviously fictional creator deity. Plenty of people, even in developed countries with decent educational systems, still believe in ghosts or magic (e.g. voodoo). And I--an atheist and a skeptic--am told I need to respect these patently false beliefs as cultural traditions.

Fuck that. They're bad cultural traditions, undeserving of respect. Child-proofing society for these intellectually stunted people doesn't help them; it is in fact a disservice to them to pretend it's okay to go through life believing these things. We should demand that people contend with reality on a factual basis by the time they reach adulthood (even earlier, if I'm being completely honest). We shouldn't be coddling people who profess beliefs that are demonstrably false, simply because their feelings might get hurt.

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sure. And, you're free to leave the table. You have the freedom to decide the question is uninteresting or contrived or whatever and never think about it again. Others, however, think the question is interesting enough to pursue. Some of those people go on to report discovering evidence for God through first-hand experience. Those people might all be morons or delusional. The only way you have any chance of knowing for sure is to keep an open mind and try to find the evidence yourself. But, again, no one's forcing you.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So to come back full circle, your claim is I'm religious for walking away from the table?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No, my claim is that you are religious for asserting that there definitely isn't a ball while at the table.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Am I religious if I say there isn't a marble at the table? Or a walnut? I don't see one, I have no reason to believe one is there, based on how the world works elsewhere there isn't anything there.

But you're telling me I need to faith to avoid these beliefs in small generally round objects. I say it is you who is using faith to assume the existence of one particular type of thing there and you're claiming I am the person operating without any evidence.

It's ridiculous.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Am I religious if I say there isn't a marble at the table? Or a walnut?

Yes.

A rational person would say "I don't know if there is a ball, marble, or walnut". If you have experience with other tables with upside-down cups, you might go further and say something like "If this table with cups is like the other tables with cups that I've experienced... (fill in whatever your experience re:balls, marbles, walnuts, etc)". To say more requires a leap of faith.

And, unlike tables, cups, balls, and walnuts, the existence of the universe is apparently quite singular. Thus, if you haven't had direct experience with it, it is unlikely that you'll have had sufficient parallel experiences to make any meaningful statements like "If this universe is like the other universes I've characterized...". Therefore, lacking any direct experience, the reasonable position would be "I don't know".

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And my claim is what you say is bull shit. If everything you don't believe in is religious then religion loses all meaning. I don't think that is what you are going for.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You're missing the point. What makes your view "religious" (or, as someone else pointed out, perhaps "faith-based" would be the better term) is your definite rejection of things (a la "my claim is what you say is bull shit"). You could respond with "That could be. I don't have any evidence to support or refute it". That would be a rational position, in the absence of evidence. You, however, go further. You say it's bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

It looks like the following comment was deleted for some reason, so I'll post it again:

By that logic I can't say unreasonable claims coming out of the Qanon movement are bull shit because the claims are so far out there they cannot be "disproved", without being religious.

It's irrational for me to say antisemitism is wrong because I can't "disprove" the existence of a super secret group of jews that actually controls everything.

I cannot rationally tell a sexist they are a piece of shit because I cannot prove God didn't intend for the world to work as a sexist might think it should.

I fail to see how being against any of the above is religious without religion losing all meaning. If being against an idea is inherently religious then what's the point? Now we have elevated sexism, antisemitism ect. to the same level as loving thy neighbor. According to your logic, I cannot rationally say one is better than another.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

By that logic I can't say unreasonable claims coming out of the Qanon movement are bull shit because the claims are so far out there they cannot be "disproved", without being religious.

It's irrational for me to say antisemitism is wrong because I can't "disprove" the existence of a super secret group of jews that actually controls everything.

I cannot rationally tell a sexist they are a piece of shit because I cannot prove God didn't intend for the world to work as a sexist might think it should.

I fail to see how being against any of the above is religious without religion losing all meaning. If being against an idea is inherently religious then what's the point? Now we have elevated sexism, antisemitism ect. to the same level as loving thy neighbor. According to your logic, I cannot rationally say one is better than another.