507
Mia Khalifa fired from Playboy for her pro-Hamas posts after the Israel attack
(www.businesstoday.in)
this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
507 points (89.4% liked)
Not The Onion
11929 readers
2 users here now
Welcome
We're not The Onion! Not affiliated with them in any way! Not operated by them in any way! All the news here is real!
The Rules
Posts must be:
- Links to news stories from...
- ...credible sources, with...
- ...their original headlines, that...
- ...would make people who see the headline think, “That has got to be a story from The Onion, America’s Finest News Source.”
Comments must abide by the server rules for Lemmy.world and generally abstain from trollish, bigoted, or otherwise disruptive behavior that makes this community less fun for everyone.
And that’s basically it!
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Over a million of Palestinians since the 1940s, including over 50 kids this year apparently means nothing.
Oh my bad. Then by all means start executing people in the streets and drag their naked bodies around to be paraded then 🙄
I mean you opened your mouth wide enough for your foot with that one. I don't know what you expected to happen when commenting about a geopolitical situation that's grown a gravity so large it's collapsed in on itself to the point that because your comment doesn't specify a side it can be validly used by someone on either side of the debate.
Fair enough
Starting the count from the 1940s seems pretty convenient. Jews have been a persecuted minority in the region for centuries previously.
Using history to justify atrocities will just end up in endless misery for everyone. Particularly in the middle east.
Unless you are going back to the war with the Romans, the Jews were not a persecuted minority in that region any more than any other minority, which would include the Arabs themselves seeing as they were controlled by the Ottomans for hundreds of years previous. The Jews were tolerated, and there was a very small religious community living in Jerusalem during the hundreds of years of Ottoman control that got along perfectly fine. The greater diaspora, especially in Eastern Europe through the 18th and 19th centuries was, however, constantly persecuted and were victims of numerous pogroms.
The Zionist movement was a reaction to the fact that European countries could not be trusted. It was a common cycle that the Jews would make a living for themselves, beginning to think that they could finally establish a home but then get attacked, scapegoated, and forced to flee. It was the Eastern European Jews fleeing such pogroms who would make up the majority of the first settlers of the Zionist mission in Palestine.
All this is simply to say that when people claim "oh they've been fighting there for thousands of years" and "the Jews were being persecuted there for so long" is not accurate. There really has not been a Jewish presence in the region since the Jewish revolt was put down by the Romans 2,000 years ago. While the current conflict is decades old, it is entirely related to the circumstances around the founding of Israel.
This is not entirely accurate. For most of history Jews were tolerated in the region, but even then they were systematically discriminated against through the legal system that would for instance not allow a Jew to testify against a Muslim in court or subject jews and other minorities to taxes not levied on Muslims.
By the late 19th and early 20th century the Muslim world began engaging in the same sort of anti-semitism and pogroms that had mostly been limited to Europe prior. This did largely have its roots in the European influence on Middle Eastern nations but nevertheless the rise in anti-semitism(for lack of a better word since most parties are semitic) in the middle east predated the formation of Isreal in 1948.
It is certainly true that this discrimination was less than they faced in Europe for most of the history of the middle east, but being better than that is a very low bar.
While yes, they were discriminated against in the region, I would argue that was the case for any non-Muslim, and not targeted at Jews specifically. Compared to what they put up with in Europe at the hands of the Christians, like the inquisition and pogroms, having to deal with paying the jizyah tax and being treated as not full citizens seemed like a better outcome.
The Ottomans were no saints, but Ottoman landlords were more than happy to rent and sell land to Zionist settlers in Palestine during the late 19th and early 20th century. These settlers were at first met with indifference, which only later turned to conflict as more and more of them poored in and the goals of the Zionist movement to establish their own state became apparent.
This is not to say that the Jews did not face injustice and unfair treatment in the Middle East in the centuries leading up to the modern era, however, there is often an argument being made that the Jews have suffered persecution at the hands of non Jewish Middle Eastern people for a thousand years and the insinuation is that this somehow justifies the behavior of the state of Israel. This is a much more modern conflict, with a long list of blame and atrocities to go around on both sides. However, some atrocities from the very earlist Jewish settlers and later state are pretty shocking and not well documented in the west.
Zionism is anti-semidic.
Next.
But what about ism?
Senseless killing does not justify more senseless killing.
That's not what-aboutism.
What they're referring to deserves to be talked about and brought up as it is demonstrably intrinsic to a conversation concerning Israel-Palestine relations.
Had they brought up literally any other country it would be what-aboutism. You can't just throw that term around every time someone issues a counterpoint that you don't feel is valid.