this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2023
385 points (87.8% liked)
Technology
60024 readers
2933 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
This is your assumption. You are assuming that the men going to the event are average men, which on average are more likely to be employed in tech. I don't think that's true in this case, I think it's mostly desperate people, possibly also from marginalized groups. Looking at the video I see mostly foreigners, possibly in need of a visa to not be kicked out of the country. Keep in mind they paid 600 bucks for a super tiny chance (imagine what are the chances that recruiters at that event will not ignore them because they went there to recruit women).
Also, reading a bit online it seems that there is always been a percentage of men attending that event.
I will not address the last paragraph, your suggestion of what "this proves" is completely arbitrary and prejudicial, I won't say what that proves, instead.
Of course, but how is this relevant. The argument there is that we are not talking about the tech-bros dominating the tech field, we are talking about a specific subgroup of the male population, the outliers, which means using the average male statistics to deliberate on this specific people misses at least partially the point.
This is what really puzzles me. This kind of argument is unacceptable in any other context, because it completely ignores the necessary conditions and balance of power needed to "create your own space". It's like saying "women can create their own tech companies and hire only women there". It doesn't make sense because it would be ignoring the fact that to create a company you need network, you need resources, capital, and if you are already marginalized, you can't just do that. I would suggest that foreigners out of a job are not in the material condition to organize a hundreds of thousands-people fair with huge sponsors.
So that they can find a job*
I am not sure how you are not seeing the foolish attempt exactly as an expression of that desperation, but as an expression of entitlement.
Why do you need to assume that it's a matter of understanding and not a matter of simply having different opinions and views?
This has nothing to do with a strawman. It's literally an educated guess based on the limited information available.
I am not sure how many of those lied. Some did, and that is shitty, but the event is technically open to men too, men have always participated to that event, apparently. See for example this from 2017. So I am not even sure that lying was a determining factor.
You will forgive me, but your personal anecdote in a completely different context doesn't count as a solid argument.
You are talking about a conference event with hundreds of thousands of attendees, sponsored by some of the biggest, and evil, companies on the planet...apologies, but this rhetoric of a safe space sounds out of place for this particular example. Also, there is no point to use this personal moral arguments, because they are useless. "If you would understand desperation/risk of deportation/whatever then..." is not an argument for anything. I don't know what you understand or don't, let's stick to the opinions we actually support?
This is your tautology, where you say that if A then B, and then B then C, but A is your pure assumption. Ex falso quodlibet, you can build any argument this way.
It's not a wild guess, and you are not willing to admit that simply because it's not convenient to your arguments. I explained what the basis for that guess is, I didn't flip a coin, but made a deduction. There is a margin of error, for sure, and I might be wrong, but I would take that bet. I also did not refuse to engage in anything, I considered (almost/) every point every single person made in every comment (despite the huge amount of repetition), so what are you talking about? "Pointing out" also doesn't mean anything, I explained my thoughts using that "guess" as the basis to make a difference that you were not making (i.e., between the average man and a subset of men with different properties - and privileges/power in this case). You disagreeing on this does not make it invalid, it simply means that we might have different opinions. I for once disagree with "Desperation doesn’t qualify someone to run roughshod over the boundaries of others, and to lie to do so. That is pure entitlement." as I don't interpret what happened in that way at all, for example. Fortunately or unfortunately, this is a judgment call, it is not something we can observe with a microscope and determine objectively, this whole topic is wholly influenced by culture, background, experiences etc. You failing to see that and acting in this very dogmatic way is fairly surprising.
Nobody is forcing you to discuss if you don't want to, but you don't get to decide jack for what others should do. If you feel like, block me or drop the conversation, as apparently this comment already shows that you have no desire to engage honestly, considering you ignored every single point I made, not viceversa.