this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
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I'm just opposed to their brand ethos. They always complicate things in the name of simplicity.
apple mice have 1 button to click, and that this decision was made (in the 80s) because they thought 2 button mice would confuse the average user.
... and now apple users command + click all the time, like that isn't more complicated.
That's not why I hate apple, but it is why I hate apple. They perpetually put the cart before the horse.
"We stopped including a charger in the box to help the environment"
Actually this means more boxes are being created in total and this is worse for the environment. 🤦♂️
Edit: God you apple stans are annoying af. I guess y'all are just an extension of their obnoxious ethos lol.
Apple Mice have had right click for 14 years, and their trackpads have used two finger click in its place far longer than that. And before that, any two button mouse worked just fine in OS X from 2001 on (earlier if you ran the beta of OS X). So your information is anywhere from two decades to one and a half decades out of date. Well done.
Someone's mad.
So what you're saying is they put the cart before the horse and eventually succumbed to the market pressure of their mistakes.
Got it.
Oh look, they did it again.
What's really sad is that you're out here promoting a trillion dollar company for free. Well done.
Hello projection my old friend…
No, just responding to their cheeky "well done" comment.
Just because you say someone is projecting doesn't make it true.
I like how you Apple stans keep proving my point about the brand's borderline toxic ethos.
Acting like someone is a corporate shill just because they don’t agree with you reeks of butthurt
Out here calling people names but anyone that doesn’t agree with you are the toxic ones, lol
butthurt? About... what?
Dude... go outside.
You seem to be upset that this isn’t an echo chamber. And yes, I’ll be sure to touch some grass as soon as I clock out.
Now who's projecting?
I am in no way upset, my guy. It's clear you are, though.
Cheers.
I’m not upset by your views of Apple at all. I don’t have an emotional connection to them any more than I do the company that made my forks. Doesn’t change the fact that your criticism is so old it can go buy a six pack.
Is there a reason you're still talking, beyond that lack of emotional connection?
Please, don't answer 🙏
I mean, couldn’t I say the same to you? Sometimes petty internet slapfights can be mildly entertaining. Certainly beats actually doing my job. I’m sure we can both agree on that
This is like being on Reddit.
Yeah I’d agree with that assessment. Only one more hour til I can touch grass, I can’t wait. I’m not even kidding, it’s a beautiful day outside
🙄
I agree with you and the OP of this thread. I don't want to support a company with a walled garden approach and they over complicate things to be unique
How so? That thought only works if you think they still manufacture the same amount of chargers and package them. Which would be pretty dumb given that they aren’t guaranteed a sell. Also, who doesn’t have a bunch of different chargers already?
You can Google for the myriad of reports on this very topic.
Here's the top result.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/16/21519466/apple-iphone-12-chargers-airpods-greenhouse-gas-emissions-e-waste
Lots of ‘mights’ and ‘ifs’. No concrete evidence. Also they write that it might spread out across lots of manufacturers. And not only that, this is an article from when the iPhone 12 got released, which was the first to include a USB-C to lightning adding to the worry.
Again, you're free to use Google and continue your research yourself. There are lots of them. I took the top result, I didn't vet it because the mountain of evidence is overwhelming.
Cheers.
Lmao, are you forgetting they also changed the cable from standard usb to lightning to USB c to lightning after they stopped including the brick?
Yeah, because everything is transitioning to USB-C and that’s a good thing. They made that switch when they removed USB A ports from their Macs.
They only made the jump to USB-C because they were forced to. They would have loved to stay on their proprietary hardware for as long as possible.
Rumor is they wanted to wait to go portless. In current state Qi chargers work on iPhones but they don’t charge as quickly as their proprietary MagSafe connector which I find ridiculous so I’m glad they had to add a standard port
That doesn't invalidate my point at all.
Apple stans gonna stan.
lol god forbid I don’t agree with y’all on one specific criticism of Apple. There’s plenty they do I criticize. Still mad about the 3.5 mm Jack and their repair bs is hypocritical
It does create less waste. If someone buys an iPad, Apple Watch, and iPhone they can charge them all off one usbc brick. Doesn’t need to be Apple brand. I use an Anker one myself. Same thing with their cheap headphones that used to come with the phone. I had accumulated a bunch of crappy headphones I never used over the course of a decade.
Speaking of annoying af. Look at you, you're the same. You're not anti-apple, you're just pro-anti.
Apple devices have had right click for a while now. It’s a two finger press.
His point is that they were 2 decades late to the party.
His point is wrong.
Wrong how? The Microsoft mouse was released in 1983 with 2 buttons. The first time Macs had a second mouse button was with OSX which was released in 2001.
Macs have always supported right mouse clicks. They’re just unnecessary in most cases. On top of that, no one Cmd+clicks because there aren’t anymore 1-button mice since the new mice are multitouch surfaces.
So, in other words, he’s wrong for multiple reasons.
I love when people are confidently wrong.
Mac's have not "always supported right mouse clicks." https://www.wired.com/2000/10/eek-a-two-button-mac-mouse/
I also love when people are confidently wrong. OS8 supported 2-button mice, along with OS9, and OSX. You’re confusing the fact that Apple’s mice didn’t have 2 buttons with whether or not any 2-button mice worked. I know because I owned one. On top of that, you can still, to this day, emulate OS8 and OS9 and use the “secondary” click.
So are you going to admit you were wrong or are you going to gaslight me and tell me I didn’t use a two-button mouse more than 2 decades ago?
http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/why-apple-makes-a-one-buttoned-mouse-01280820/
“Apple supports multi-button mice. Right out of the box. Furthermore, this is not a ‘new feature’ of OS X. Support for contextual menus (the primary use for the two button mouse) have been around since OS 8.6, which is now more than seven years old. Let me repeat, Apple supports multi-button mice.”
After a deep dive of research into ADB and reading about the extended mouse protocol, i relent that yes Apple did support multiple mouse buttons for a long time.
However, also seeing that Apple's own first party multi-button mouse that supported right clicking only came out in 2005... your point is just like saying that old cars with 8-track playes supports Spotify cause i have my phone auxed into a converter.
So, factually, you're correct. But his point still stands.
That analogy is terrible. You could plugin a 2 button mouse and clicking the 2nd button gave you contextual menus. You’re just being dishonest. There was no converter necessary.
I'm not being dishonest.
Apple never supplied you the mouse, it was hardware that you bought separately, just like the 8-track to Aux converter in my analogy. Apple only relented to providing you a mouse that supports 2 button clicks in 2005. That's something Microsoft has provided since day 1 which is why "they're late to the party". It also emphasizes how apple wants to limit it's user's experience despite their machine's capabilities.
I'm pretty sure that meets the requirements for the original point.
You are, though. You only said two things that I pointed out were both wrong.
First you said that Macs didn’t have right click until OSX in 2001. That’s wrong no matter which way you want to spin it. Macs as machines supported it before 2001. Apple didn’t include a mouse with a 2nd button until 2005 (and it wasn’t even a second button, it was a multi-touch mouse).
Then you just said that Microsoft provided something. Microsoft didn’t make computers back then. They never bundled any mice with any software so you’re wrong on that count too.
The argument was never about whether Apple supplied a mouse. You’re being dishonest and you won’t even fess up when called out. So… more dishonesty.
I already admitted that you were correct about Apple supporting a multi-button mouse. What you're missing us the fact that they didn't want you to have one until 2005. They made you buy a non brand mouse to do the job.
Microsoft made their first mouse in 1983 to go with Word, and it had 2 buttons. Go back even further and Xerox had one with 3 buttons in 1981.
The point stands that Apple purposefully chose to not bundle a multi-button mouse until 2005 becasue they didn't respect their user base. Their walled garden approach to computers and software is great for people who are just need a PC or a Phone. But historically their not for developers or power users.
More dishonesty. You had to buy the Microsoft mouse separate from any computer purchase just like you would have had to for a Mac. Apple didn’t bundle a mouse with a secondary button because their User Interface Guidelines explicitly state that user functions should not be hidden behind non-UI interactions and that all commands should be accessible by a primary click.
It has nothing to do with a walled garden. You’re wrong and now you just sound ignorant.
Look man, i get that you're probably a diehard Apple fanboy, but you're really missing the point.
Fact 1 - Microsoft openly supported a multi-button mouse and offered it to you. PCs that were budled with Microsoft windows came with a 2 button mouse. They trusted their users to understand how it worked.
Fact 2 - Apple supported mutli-button mice but refused to bundle it with their computers until 2005 because they didn't trust that users were smart enough to use it.
These 2 facts lead back to the original point. That PC makers trusted their users were smart enough, and Apple didn't. That Apple only relented when they were proven wrong that people could very easily use and understand a multi-button mouse. That they were late to the party to bundle it with their computers.
Prove me wrong on either if the 2 facts.
And the "walled garden" is an ethos which has dictated all of Apples choices. They want to have full control over what us done on their hardware and software. It has merit to our conversation.
And honestly, your arguments will never change the fact that Apple's approach to hardware and software has been a deterrent to user for decades.
Alright, I’m out. You’re a liar and are moving the goalposts of the original discussion. I don’t engage with liars. Worse yet, you attack anyone who proves you wrong as a fanboy. There’s no point in continuing with rude, dishonest people.
Oh get over yourself. You're giving up because you have no more argument. You realized you lost so now you're butt hurt about the whole thing.
I didn't insult you or Apple fanboys. I pointed out clearly obvious things, relented when you proved yourself correct, and showed how OP meant his point by using facts.
No. I’m ending this because you’re a liar and are dishonest. Why would anyone continue talking to someone discussing anything in bad faith. The fact that you’re even calling it “giving up” proves you’re a liar.
Where am i being dishonest?