this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2023
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I'm going to get flamed here, but my personal thoughts are that if someone can get their rocks off looking at these cartoons of underage girls and it's enough to satiate their desire that they don't do it in real life, then I don't mind it at all. Heck, I even strongly encourage it.
It's a victimless crime. Just let them have it if it doesn't hurt anyone.
Edit: VICE did a great video about this. I encourage you guys to check it out. https://youtu.be/Ky3HqvT3M8E?si=RqYHZ5EfSN5M2liw
Has there ever been an established correlation between people who're into underage animated characters and real underage people? It could easily be two completely or almost completely separate groups of people so it might not be helpful at all. Still not harmful either I suppose as I tend to be in the camp of no victim= no crime...
When I started watching anime, the characters were my age. Now I'm significantly older, but I still like similar characters than I used to in a similar way than I used to.
I've also seen Japanese schoolkids in real life, and while I find them adorable the same way I find any kids adorable, I have absolutely zero interest in them in the way I do towards the fictional characters. They are two completely different things for me now.
I feel you're treading in similar waters to a thought experiment I've pondered before:
Imagine you either remember or fantasize about a sexual situation that occurred while you yourself were a minor with another minor. Is there something inherently wrong with becoming aroused by this? What if you're fantasizing about a situation where you were underage and something happens with someone who is not? Does anything change if you write it down? What if you draw it? Is it less wrong if you're imagining to be the underage person than if you imagine you're the older one?
I don't have any answers to any of this of course, other than it feels less wrong when you're imagining/remembering yourself to be an underage person in these situations as you can sort of retroactively consent in a way?
I guess the takeaway is probably that fantasy and reality are too different to be judged the same, and the only danger arises from those who start blending the two.
It might sate a number of them, but unhealthy addictions tend to have a nature of escalation that makes the fantasy no longer possible to limit to just drawings or other mediums. Providing, in any way, is implicitly enabling that 'addict' to seek higher thrills. The harm comes after.
You're arguing that sexual orientation can be trained or influenced by our media, which is the exact argument that the Conservative right has been using to ban books (and everything else). It's also an argument that has been proven groundless time and time again.
Fetishes absolutely can. Mine partially came from going to far the YouTube rabbit hole when I was young.
Like any other porn or adult material, that would be entirely on the parents to be aware of and guide their kids' media consumption.
They don't know anything about anything online. But I'm trying to say that it can shape preferences.
Was it proven to be groundless, though? There are studies which show how media, like social media, influence body image and also social norms and values. The research on the effects of pornography is largely inconclusive and some say there is an effect.
This meta study claims they found a connection between aggressive behaviour and the consumption of (violent) porn. But I can't find an open access link: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-Meta-Analysis-of-Pornography-Consumption-and-Acts-Wright-Tokunaga/91048b61adb1b989423920a6b0f344210bc725ed
I am not sure if one can boldly claim that the media consumed doesn't influence a person.
I also think there is a difference between what conservatives claim, which is mostly that your sexual orientation gets influenced by media, versus the claim at hand, that watching animated porn of underage characters increases that preference or even makes it more extreme.
This isn't a political issue, total freedom is not possible under any world view anyway, so saying "the Nazis did it" isn't enough justification to abandon censorship when it comes to harmful media.
I agree. This is just like violence in video games really.
You're assuming it's an unhealthy addiction. How do you know it's not a mental disability? Or a post traumatic experience?
Even if it's an addiction, how someone treats an addiction for drugs varies across the board for even the same drug.
Currently there are no victims. Restricting the medium has a chance it makes things worse. Who knows. If we restrict it, we might see more Catholic priests in Japan.
But it cultivates the desire rather than addressing it. It's complicated, but I think the danger from pulling more people in is much greater than the potential benefit of keeping hardened cases out of society.
You're arguing that sexual orientation can be trained or influenced by our media, which is the exact argument that the Conservative right has been using to ban books (and everything else). It's also an argument that has been proven groundless time and time again.
Pedophilia isn't a sexual orientation
Source? Because every medical article I've seen states it is. We're not talking post-puberty 16 year olds, we're talking prepubescent little kids.
Could you link yours? I'd rather not go digging though that stuff right now.
I'd compare it more to a fetish.
https://psychcentral.com/disorders/causes-of-pedophilia
TLDR: There's a ton of potential causes, and it's an underresearched topic. There's no real way to change the preference, only deal with and mitigate urges.
But this doesn't mitivate the urges then if you want to put it that way.
Why not? I obviously don't have first hand experience, but AFAIK it's essentially porn for those with the condition. Like any other porn, you watch it, get your rocks off, and forget about it until your hormones recharge. It's a harmless and victimless outlet for them, probably the only one I can think of.
You don't get desensitized to porn over time?
Not to the point it becomes entirely ineffective. The point here is that we don't have a better way of dealing with or treating people with this issue. It's the least-worst option we have available to us.
I still don't think feeding/appeasing the problem is better than treating it and cutting it out.
I would agree with you, if we had any plausible way of treating and cutting it out. Unfortunately we don't, short of chemical castration.
You think counseling or therapy is entirely ineffective?
Thus far, counselling and therapy is almost entirely only obtained by the portion of the group that has already acted on their thoughts and urges. I think we can agree that that's probably too late in terms of harm prevention. I also doubt we have the resources to provide that sort of personal treatment to everybody suffering from the issue, at least under our current system.
But that doesn't mean we should give up
I'm not suggesting we do, that was not the point of the original discussion.
Do you have evidence that it cultivates desire? Or does it satiates urges?
Why do we even need to address it? Like, If these people live a fulfilling life and are a functioning member in society, who cares what they do at home?
I don't know if there have been studies done. I'm just speaking from my experience with a different fetish. And I would have rather not been exposed to that.
I'm sorry if you're struggling with a fetish. Anecdotally your experience and what happens differ from others. The thing is, you can choose to avoid these fetishes if you want to. On the flip side if it's illegal, you won't be cured of these fetishes, instead now be on the hook legally if you engage in it.
Nice did a great video about this. Check it out. https://youtu.be/Ky3HqvT3M8E?si=RqYHZ5EfSN5M2liw