Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
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Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
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Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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Each generation tells the next that college is needed even more these days, unless you want to be a trash collector or construction worker. That, along with the getting worse pay and body damaging labor, adds up fast.
It is exactly this. We're trying to recruit hard too, which is working. My local can take about 50 apprentices a year. Between job fairs and school presentations we had 700 apply this year, which is awesome, but way more than we can handle at once.
There is great money to be made in the trades, and joining a union is the absolute best way to do it.
This is why I never really went for the trades. It always seemed like winning the lottery to get an apprenticeship, at least in a large city.
It's really not. If there's a long wait then you apply for the apprenticeship and while you wait ask if they have any other training programs, most of them do, or go work non union while you wait to get in. Gaining experience will help you move up the list and you'll be starting in no time. I had absolutely 0 construction experience and waited less than a year to start in the 3rd largest city in our state.
Depends on the trade. I've worked with a bunch in my area.
Elevators, building engineers? You gotta know somebody. Laborers union? You ain't Latino, you ain't getting in. Electricians, welders? You don't have to know someone, but it sure helps if you do. Also if you're white.
Oh, and No Girls Allowed, so there goes 50% of your potential recruits.
Well I guess since you have all the answers, everyone should go home and just not fucking try. I mean, what's the point? Cryophilia here said everything is hopeless and lost. I mean, he personally applied to all of these labor unions and was given these responses. What chance do we have?
It is what it is, I don't see how sticking your head in the sand will help anything.
You're the one talking about how hopeless trying to work in the trades is, which it isn't. I had no experience, and knew no members before I applied. When I have come across unsafe conditions on a site I've always gotten it fixed.
You said you complained about unsafe conditions, to who? The non union contractor? Or did you talk to osha? When they cut your hours did you file for under employment? Did you do anything to actually fix the conditions for the other workers? Or did you just shrug and move on?
One of us ran into struggles, dealt with them and improved, the other cries about how it's not even worth trying. Who's head is in the sand?
I got a new job and told the other workers what happened. I did not file an OSHA complaint, because it was very tenuous and I was a little busy with my sudden lack of income. I now have a job that makes much more money while actually prioritizing safety.
No, I'm not. You made that up in your own head. I simply pointed out my experience in my area. My point was that it's not always as easy as walking into the union hall with a firm handshake and getting an apprenticeship.
Oh sir, my apologies. You only cited the impossibility of getting into a union, the danger and abuse of the work, a complete lack of regard for anyone's safety, rampant racism, sexism and nepotism...
...but I crossed a line when I summized all that into a hopeless outlook.
And applying is ALWAYS as easy as walking in with nothing but a firm handshake. Most of the time ive only needed half of that.
You have an issue with hyperbole, my friend.
You also have this problem where you think your personal experiences are universally applicable to the entire world.
No, you have an issue with pessimism. You seem to give up and move on for something easy as soon as you need to show effort.
You cited why you couldn't get into a bunch of unions, but I don't think you applied to any of them. Which means you think your assumptions are universally applicable. Mine are at least based on experience, and im encouraging people to go out there and do it. You've got nothing but assumptions and excuses.
First of all you're being weirdly angry about this.
Second, my info comes from multiple conversations with union members and union leaders in my area. I didn't just apply, I talked to the people who view applications. That means I have more insight than you.
Third, I never said my experience was universally applicable.
You need to take a chill pill dude, you're gonna end up catching 20 to life at this rate. I just shared my experience with the unions in my area. Your area is probably different. Someone reading this will probably have a different experience than either of us.
More nothing and excuses.
I'm not upset in the least, maybe you should check the tone you read me in
I mean sure, just ignore everything I said and then claim I said nothing, that's one approach
Well, you haven't said anything of substance yet.
And remember, I didn't just apply, I got in. So no, you don't "know more about it" than I do.
That's the spirit
Running a union is the most lucrative way though.
If a union boss gets a shitload of money to make sure their workers get fair wages, fine by me.
You do realize you have to be a member and respected by the local in order to become the leader, right? You say it like the president of a union wasn't a jw before he got elected. Our current local executive team were all working in the field less than a year ago.
Ex construction worker here. I did HVAC installation for 6 years and worked as an apprentice electrician for two. This is in California(SoCal;southern California). I didn't get any health insurance benefits. Also I wasn't in a union of any kind. The work is demanding; the pay was ok. There's a lot of toxic Mother Fuckers in construction, besides your boss I mean. I also felt that there wasn't many trade schools to go to and they were not easy to find. I went to get a certificate in an electrician course and found out that the certificate ( which I didn't even get, because I didn't show up on the last day (came to get it multiple times after with no luck)) that they were giving out didn't even mean shit really. I always felt there's not enough clear information on how to climb the ladder if you wanted to get accredited education in construction. Unless You went to LA TRADE TECH college (Los Angeles) . Or if you didn't get a job at LADWP, your skills and knowledge didn't offer You any good jobs. I worked private sector jobs and got my knowledge from; (basically) an online school ( penn foster ) .
Anyways 🤨 I just always felt that the state didn't provide enough information on how to climb the ladder in your career, where to go get certification that was accredited ETC.
We really need some bad ass trade schools (out here) that aren't for profit. And clear information on how to get licensed in different trades.
That's my two cents
Edit; let me add this; to me it feels like the government can be shortcited. They didn't invest in training 😕 new generation of trade workers IMHO ; and now they're like; "oh shit!"
For profit; "everything", makes life shit. (Pardon my French and also the terrible use of English grammar)