Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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Well I guess since you have all the answers, everyone should go home and just not fucking try. I mean, what's the point? Cryophilia here said everything is hopeless and lost. I mean, he personally applied to all of these labor unions and was given these responses. What chance do we have?
It is what it is, I don't see how sticking your head in the sand will help anything.
You're the one talking about how hopeless trying to work in the trades is, which it isn't. I had no experience, and knew no members before I applied. When I have come across unsafe conditions on a site I've always gotten it fixed.
You said you complained about unsafe conditions, to who? The non union contractor? Or did you talk to osha? When they cut your hours did you file for under employment? Did you do anything to actually fix the conditions for the other workers? Or did you just shrug and move on?
One of us ran into struggles, dealt with them and improved, the other cries about how it's not even worth trying. Who's head is in the sand?
I got a new job and told the other workers what happened. I did not file an OSHA complaint, because it was very tenuous and I was a little busy with my sudden lack of income. I now have a job that makes much more money while actually prioritizing safety.
No, I'm not. You made that up in your own head. I simply pointed out my experience in my area. My point was that it's not always as easy as walking into the union hall with a firm handshake and getting an apprenticeship.
Oh sir, my apologies. You only cited the impossibility of getting into a union, the danger and abuse of the work, a complete lack of regard for anyone's safety, rampant racism, sexism and nepotism...
...but I crossed a line when I summized all that into a hopeless outlook.
And applying is ALWAYS as easy as walking in with nothing but a firm handshake. Most of the time ive only needed half of that.
You have an issue with hyperbole, my friend.
You also have this problem where you think your personal experiences are universally applicable to the entire world.
No, you have an issue with pessimism. You seem to give up and move on for something easy as soon as you need to show effort.
You cited why you couldn't get into a bunch of unions, but I don't think you applied to any of them. Which means you think your assumptions are universally applicable. Mine are at least based on experience, and im encouraging people to go out there and do it. You've got nothing but assumptions and excuses.
First of all you're being weirdly angry about this.
Second, my info comes from multiple conversations with union members and union leaders in my area. I didn't just apply, I talked to the people who view applications. That means I have more insight than you.
Third, I never said my experience was universally applicable.
You need to take a chill pill dude, you're gonna end up catching 20 to life at this rate. I just shared my experience with the unions in my area. Your area is probably different. Someone reading this will probably have a different experience than either of us.
More nothing and excuses.
I'm not upset in the least, maybe you should check the tone you read me in
I mean sure, just ignore everything I said and then claim I said nothing, that's one approach
Well, you haven't said anything of substance yet.
And remember, I didn't just apply, I got in. So no, you don't "know more about it" than I do.
That's the spirit