this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2023
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I’m thinking back to the GFC in 2008 and swine flu but weirdly don’t remember much. For me they didn’t hugely affect my life and were so long ago they’re like a mental blip.
I know swine flu was contained fairly quickly (unlike covid) but for the average person how do economic conditions now compare to what they were in 2008?
wages have declined in real terms, cost of living has gone up
I figured :( I’m just wondering, were costs of living *ever this bad…
Edit: Do you think it’s going to improve or is late stage capitalism just going to keep doing its thing?
That's a difficult concept
You know what I mean though. Is this going to improve or is it just going to keep getting worse
The main thing that helps me sleep soundly at night is knowing at least the buck - and the personal suffering, I hope - stops with me in terms of future humans. As long as they still have safe and relatively easily accessible chemical euthanasia when I start becoming unable to care for my basic needs, I am not going to get too anxious about my own life - which is the only thing I really have the most control over.
If society collapses I think I have enough in me to find a way to have a meaningful and healthy enough life that contributes to others existence... but I'd probably rather take myself out when it gets to the roving-marauders-with-guns phase.
I don’t think it’d be so dramatic or immediate. At least I hope not. More just the downward slide of shittiness that’s been happening, and vastly more people not coping or able to get basic needs met.
A worsening of the mental health crises and violence in the CBD, even more homeless than now. Increased health care burden due to drug use, heat stroke, assaults or malnutrition.
Possibly arrests turning violent because people are increasingly being forced to squat and getting evicted plus the right to protest has been gradually eroded by laws. Climate change slowly gets really bad and wrecks people in cheaply built houses. (Tbh that’s already happening.)
I really hope things can improve. Plus between depressed wages and rising costs it could get to the point where people are literally unable to buy shit and the economy fails anyway.
Edit: Mutual aid is one way but honestly I’m no longer able to do it
Apologies in advance for a wall of text. Will try to put it under a spoiler.
spoiler
As someone who actually had swine flu, I remember that time fairly well. The flu was Not Fun. Economic conditions were a little different but not too much. You could, and I did, live without a home computer. Still had to have a mobile phone though. My boys had both reached the downhill slope of uni, and were fairly independent and both were earning and contributing to the household costs including labour costs.Price of food was distributed differently - meat was relatively cheaper than today. Lamb was still a relatively cheap meat due to large supply. Pork was relatively expensive as not so much was imported as is today. Also only a few categories of milk - real milk and reduced fat removed coloured water which was promoted as healthy. Soy milk really wasn't a thing much, and the whole gluten-free thing hadn't really gotten started. It was available in health food shops, but not usually in supermarkets. Somewhat reduced choice of vegetables available in supermarkets - you had to go to a market or side of the road stall for interesting veg.
As a rule of thumb, the biggest perceived health threat was FAT. And there was fat-free almost everything available (except maybe bacon), and butter was the true cause of the downfall of civilisations if you believed the healthfood press. People even avoided eating eggs because of the fat content. Processed food still hit the sugar pretty hard, and sugary food was marketed as "low fat" and therefore healthy. Not healthier, just healthy in general due to increased 'energy'. This still happens today.
Less 'foreign' food in supermarkets, but plenty of ethnic restaurants. And imo restaurant food was relatively cheaper than today - so we ate out more, but got a LOT less takeaway and no home deliveries. Lots of people still did a weekly shopping trip and this was also an entertainment thing and had to be co-ordinated with the TV's programme schedule. You could tell when a popular programme was being broadcast because the supermarkets would be empty.
Power prices, well I had solar on my roof for hot water and electricity, so I didn't perceive any problem with that. Lots of people bitched and moaned about the price of power but it was generally agreed that gas was the cheapest option. Electric stoves were still a distinct step down from gas for cooking, and induction just wasn't on the radar. Reverse cycle aircon was still fairly new, and not trusted by many. After all, how could your air con also be your heater? The cost of petrol was also a constant whinge. Memories of the millenium drought were still fresh, so saving water was a priority and the cost of water was going up up up.
This period was also the last gasp of the great home renovation boom that hit in the 1990s and lasted until about 2010. I don't miss that, or the convos about one's latest renovation at any and every social event including the pub so help me God.
In my opinion, the chief difference between then and now is the drop in real wages, and rising rental costs.
The actual cost of living (outside of housing cost) as a percentage is not all that different when you take the change in HOW and WHERE we spend money into account. We are outsourcing or delegating a lot more stuff to commercial providors and insisting that it be delivered to us. This comes at a cost. There is less money available to pay for it. It's a choice not a right, imo.
Thanks for this. It all sounds about right. I was a grown adult through all of it, just really don’t remember much.
(By it not affecting me much I meant - I was already a hermit! I was already poor!)
I honestly don't remember much (the ADHD mixed with PTSD really fucks with the memory). But I was 13 and that was the year my parents separated. So I can't remember the economic issues at the time, I just remember having to live in a unit instead of a house when they separated. Dad was still in the old house until maybe mid-way through 2009?
But yeah 2008 was weird. Starting year 7, so moving to a new school, and then at the end of the year having to move schools again because of the separation.
It’s fair enough not to remember, that’s a lot for a kid
I do remember in 2009 when KRudd gave people money and mum gave my sister and I $50, and obviously back then that was a lot. I bought a DVD from Sanity hahaha. And I remember Swine Flu being in the news, but it didn't feel as real as Covid did.